3rd Version or not, that is the question.

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Due to the confusion I caused by hijacking mb's "Buck bay blunder" thread, I am taking seaplanes good counsel to start its own thread. I copied the last post I made and pasted it here. I am very interested to continue the debate on what it may be. Re-reading Joes notes it also appears it could be a 6th varation but I dont know if they had integral spring holder or not. Sorry for the delay and I ask you to all please consider the question and help me figger what is actually is.


Here is where we left off.....

OK here is what I know. this knife does indeed have integral brass spring holder. It has 1 visible butt rivot on the left lower side of the rear bolster away from the rocker. The rt side of the rear bolster has no visible rivot. The pivot rivot is visible from both sides although your really have to look for it on the right side. The rocker is certainly brass and it has 2 tiny inlay rivots that are not headed. I think Flat is right with 3rd ver 8th variation except it specifically calls for 2 but rivots. Maybe 6th version-but I'd swear in court that there is no rt side butt rivot- I cant see one and take a good enough pic to show you but here is what I got.
087-1-1.jpg

092.jpg

089.jpg

083.jpg

082-1.jpg

110inverted2liner003.jpg


whataya think?
 
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There are a few good reasons to think it's a Third (they've been mentioned before) but I think it's a Third because of the nail notch. Of course, there's always the possibility of a blade switch.

I linked more information in the "Mystery" thread today.

:)
 
I can't help here at all Kevin, but I'm sure someone will come along that knows what they are talking about and will be some real help to you regarding this issue.
 
I can't help here at all Kevin, but I'm sure someone will come along that knows what they are talking about and will be some real help to you regarding this issue.

Thanks Dave, youre right-there is a great vault of knowledge here.:thumbup:
Seemed like Flat was honin in on it and may very well be right-if more pics are needed let me know what angles.
 
Well, while you two chat and we wait for the door of the vast vault of knowledge to swing open......I'm gonna register my guess that it's a Third Version, Variation Three.

There ya go! Best so far, huh?

:)
 
Fritz, the reason I can't agree with you that it's a Variation Six is that the rear bolster rivet that you can see is in the wrong place. It would be more centered I think.

Remember the nail notch, too.

:)
 
I'm going tpo through my bid im and say sixth var, I can only see the butt rivit if I blow up the pic to 200% and if I cant prove its earlier I go with the newer design.
 
Well, MJB........according to some accounts, the Variation Six should have just one butt rivet......and it would be centered more.

Also......it's hard to tell from the pictures, but I think he just may have a forged blade there......and with that early-looking nail notch.........

I'm sticking with Variation Three.

:)
 
Fritz,

I can't tell for sure in the picture if the rocker rivet is smooth or has a head. Can you clarify? g
 
I must have missed the photo of the nail nic and stamping . I have a 4V/2v and a 3V/3v . Is it just the two end bolsters you want a measurement on ? DM
 
FYI

From Joe's current Data Sheet:
Third Version, Integral Brass Spacer/Spring holder, 9 variations

Variation 1 (1967)6
Stamp: BUCK dot, Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: Visible on left side of rear bolsters only.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. A or B.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 1 ½” high-(2), Guarantee Registration/Remember card with Federal Blvd. address-(1)(2 types seen), rice paper guarantee slip-(2), white tissue-(2), tips on care card-(2), knife sharpening card-(2).

Variation 2 (1967)7
Stamp: BUCK, Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 2 visible on left side of rear bolsters only.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. A or B.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box. **

Variation 3 (1967)8
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 2 visible on left side of rear bolsters only.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high-(1), about 1 ½” high-(1), “Attention” leaflet orange-(1), knife sharpening card-(1), Guarantee Registration/Remember card with Federal Blvd. address-(1)(2 types seen), Use and Care leaflet with Federal Blvd. address-(1), Navy exchng sales slip date 12/1/67, Al Buck note-(1).

Variation 4 (1968-1970)9
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: Visible on left side of rear bolsters only.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: None.
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high. **

Variation 5 (1968-1970)10
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 3 visible on left side of rear bolster 1 visible on right side.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high. **

Variation 6 (1968-1970)11
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 1 visible on left side of rear bolster, 1 on right side.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high. **

Variation 7 (1968-1970)12
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 1 visible on left side of rear bolster, 1 on right side.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 standard sized.
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high. **

Variation 8 (1968-1970)13
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 2 visible on both sides of bolsters.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, maybe headed.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high. **

Variation 9 (1968-1970)14
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Right hand, 440C steel.
Blade/Butt rivets: Visible on both sides of bolsters, 2 rear, 1 front.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, maybe headed.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high-(1), Use and Care leaflet undated-(1), “Attention” leaflet orange-(1), **
 
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Fritz,

I can't tell for sure in the picture if the rocker rivet is smooth or has a head. Can you clarify? g

g,

all rivots are smooth and flush with scale. To answer a couple other, and why I am not sure-pardon if name isnt mentioned-3v 3var-I only see one butt rivot on left side and there should be 2 visible-I have searched these butt rivots as best as my eyes can and thats all I see.

4v 2var-should have a stainless headed rocker rivot-this one is brass and flat.

thanks
fritz
 
OK so looking at Fritz pictures #5 above shows a rocker rivet without a head I believe so the knife is earlier than an 8th. It has tiny inlay rivets so its not a 7th. Because it has inlay rivets so its not a 4th which does not have inlay rivets. Var #1 and Var #2 are one liners so it not those.

So Buckeroos the choice seems to be down to:

Variation 3 (1967)8
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 2 visible on left side of rear bolsters only.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high-(1), about 1 ½” high-(1), “Attention” leaflet orange-(1), knife sharpening card-(1), Guarantee Registration/Remember card with Federal Blvd. address-(1)(2 types seen), Use and Care leaflet with Federal Blvd. address-(1), Navy exchng sales slip date 12/1/67, Al Buck note-(1).

OR

Variation 5 (1968-1970)10
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 3 visible on left side of rear bolster 1 visible on right side.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high. **

OR

Variation 6 (1968-1970)11
Stamp: BUCK, u.s.a., Inverted, Left hand, 440C steel.
Butt rivets: 1 visible on left side of rear bolster, 1 on right side.
Blade rivet: Visible on both sides of front bolsters.
Inlay rivets: 2 (tiny)
Rocker rivet: Brass, no head.
Sheath: Leather, black. B or C.
Packaging: 2 piece yellow box about 2” high. **

Fritz's knife has had its bolsters worked on with somthing with some grit so they are not easy to look at and note blade and bolster rivets. All three options are same on the blade rivet. So our decision is going to be on what we think we can see regarding the butt rivet or other guesstimations like the early looking nail nick.

I don't understand why Buck would run two variations like Var #5 and Var #6 concurrently for three years with the only difference being 3 visiable rivets on the left side of #5 and only one visiable for #6. Why would that happen???

I have decided there is nothing special to make of the small nail nick. Fritz's blade is larger than the more delicate shaped 1st and 2nd Version blades. It has the smaller ricasso of a third version blade (remember originally designed as a one liner) are even though it is a two line stamp. The fourth version's ricasso was enlarged to accomidate two line stamping I believe. It has the thirds thin nail nick. Fritz's blade plainly looks like a third version which we already knew.

So back to bolster rivets. Reading Blade's write up about the Third version, it said:

Knives can be found where the cap-bolster rivets are only visible on the left-hand side, on both sides, and some will even have just one large rivet visiable on both sides of the cap bolsters.

Remember, Fritz has shown us what is definetly one large rivet on the left side rear bolster in one photo. It does not seem to appear on the other side but this knife has been sanded and buffed. Fritz does not see any rivets on the right side.

However, the way Joe writes up the Variations noting 1 visiable rivet in the 6th Variation makes it the winner in my opinion. The third and 5ths rivets would have been smaller multiple rivets.

It is my opinion that Fritz is the proud owner of a 3rd Version, 6th Variation
 
I just have great difficulty believing that you are all arguing over which Third Version that knife is. As Flatlander's quote of Joe's current data sheet demonstrates, all Version 3s have a brass rocker rivet.

I cannot speak for the resolution of the various computers that are looking at the knife but the rocker rivet is steel.

The first time that a steel rocker rivet appears on Joes list is 4V-2v, and then the Fifth Version Var1 is the only one with an Inverted BUCK USA. Thereafter it goes to BUCK 110 USA.

My Vote is 4V-2v or 5V-1v.

I have attached a couple of Pictures from the original auction offering--not for quality but to show more graphically that the Rocker rivet is steel.

380775802_tpb.jpg

380775802_tp.jpg


Telechronos:):):)
 
Does the winner of this guessing contest get the knife Fritz??????? ;);)

Yes Flat, because when its all said and done with, by the hard thinking on the subject you guys are putting in, and when the true ver and var are discovered, I will be the true winner:D

thanks to all who are helpin me through

as a side note. the fine scratches on the bolster are not from sanding and buffing as far as I can tell-they are only picked up from the camera and this knife shows no signs if any work other than normal cleaning.
 
I have a few more pictures for comparison. The First picture is of the auction offering:

380775811_obbb.jpg


The Second is BG42's pic of a 4V-2v 110:

BuckFourthVersion110LateSteelRockeb.jpg


The third picture is of Imafritz's 3V-8v 110:

082-1bbb.jpg


First and second pictures have headed stainless steel rocker rivets. Third pic has brass non headed rocker rivet.

I still feel that the questionable knife more resembles BG42's 4V-2v!!! It could still be a 5V-1v.

Telechronos:):):)
 
I have a few more pictures for comparison. The First picture is of the auction offering:

380775811_obbb.jpg


The Second is BG42's pic of a 4V-2v 110:

BuckFourthVersion110LateSteelRockeb.jpg


The third picture is of Imafritz's 3V-8v 110:

082-1bbb.jpg


First and second pictures have headed stainless steel rocker rivets. Third pic has brass non headed rocker rivet.



I still feel that the questionable knife more resembles BG42's 4V-2v!!! It could still be a 5V-1v.

Telechronos:):):)

Tele, thanks, this thread is the baby of mb's bay blunder thread but has been reopened to discuss my inverted 2 liner which is your third pic listed as imafritz's 3rd 8th. I had effectively highjacked that thread by accident so opened this one to avoid further muddying the waters by discussing multiple knives.

fritz:)


ps, i am interested if by your listing, do you feel mine is indeed a 3rd var, 8th var?

thanks again
 
ps, i am interested if by your listing, do you feel mine is indeed a 3rd var, 8th var?

Fritz, it can't be a 3V/8V because it has a brass rocker no head. It's a 3V/6V I think.

Tele...we're just talking. I don't think anyone thinks we have an arguement.

And I think the eBay linked knife is a 4V/2V as you said but Fritz's is a third for sure. The 5V/1V has a brass rocker rivet.

Yes Fritz you are the winner on this one :D
 
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