3V and folders, uneducated and confused.

I have an Oz Machine Company Roosevelt in MagnaCut that I've used quite a bit with a HRC of 62 and the blade is incredibly thin behind the edge and it's tackled everything impressively so far, from cutting zip ties to everything else... No rolled edges, no chips, and still incredibly sharp. I have a 20cv hinderer that has all of the above from half the amount of use the Roosevelt has been put through lol. I'm impressed with it. I haven't used my 3V quite as much in comparison but I'm looking forward to trying out that steel too. Idk if it's just me or maybe I have a bad example but I don't like 20CV at all, same thing with M390 so far... but we'll see.
The proliferation of M390 and 20CV blows my mind. I think it is partly due to name recognition of being THE supersteel. I wonder how many people actually use the steel though. I stay away from M390. I've had a ton of knives in it, and it seemed to chip so easily I swore off of it; I will not even consider buying a knife in M390. I don't use my folders super hard, but I also don't like to baby them. Magnacut has been a perfect replacement for me to M390. Much better edge stability, equal corrosion resistance, and comparable edge retention.
 
I'd personally go 14c28n or Aeb-L in a folder over 3v. Better corrosion resistance no noticeable difference in toughness, probably much cheaper and both about as easy to sharpen as a steel can be. My 14c28n folders edge retention is fine and a simple strop and theyre good to go.
 
Simple, CPM-3v is less likely to chip when it's in a thin blade stock compared to something like S90v, depending on what you're cutting. Especially if you're cutting a pretty abrasive material full of particles like sand (think dirty rope), that superior toughness can handle coming into contact with those hard sand particles which might mean better edge retention compared to a brittle steel that'll microchip like crazy when it hits the sand in that rope (ie. the S90V and S110V's of the world). Also CPM-3v is slightly more stainless than Cru-Wear in addition to being tougher, edge retention isn't the end all be all of knives, otherwise all knives would be made of ceramic, obsidian, glass or similarly chippy, ultra high wear resistance materials.

Now for my own little aside- There's this trend I see in the knife community that's kind of silly IMO. People make these big thick knives in super tough steels like CPM-3V and Cru-Wear and then these super thin slicey knives in something like S90V, when IMO it should be the other way around. A tough steel (ie. CPM-3v) can handle being ground super thin and slicey without horrendous amounts of micro chipping, whereas a steel prone to chipping like S90v might benefit from a thicker blade stock. A steel like 1095 that has a measured toughness less than many modern stainless steels (at higher HRC's nonetheless) has a reputation for being tough because everyone making knives in 1095 are making super thick knives. In theory, if we're going by Dr. Larrin's numbers, something like an Esee-5 in S-35vn would actually be stronger than an Esee-5 in it's standard 1095 assuming both steels are at the same hardness. So what's with this trope of making sharpened prybars in tough steel that if ground thin would hold an excellent edge with close to no micro chipping for 99% of knife related tasks and then making these super thin knives in steels that will microchip while cutting cardboard?
Very good points. My response to a thick-ground blade made from tough steel is to lay the edge back and not worry about the wide bevel. Outdoors55 recently did an interesting video explaining why a wide bevel is more stable than a narrow bevel with identical sharpening angles.


Granted, a 2-3mm wide bevel isn't going to work well for resale value, but I don't buy knives to resell them, so I just sharpen'em like I want'em.
 
The proliferation of M390 and 20CV blows my mind. I think it is partly due to name recognition of being THE supersteel. I wonder how many people actually use the steel though. I stay away from M390. I've had a ton of knives in it, and it seemed to chip so easily I swore off of it; I will not even consider buying a knife in M390. I don't use my folders super hard, but I also don't like to baby them. Magnacut has been a perfect replacement for me to M390. Much better edge stability, equal corrosion resistance, and comparable edge retention.
I respectfully disagree. I have many knives in M390/20cv and chipping hasn't been an issue for me ... after getting through the often-burned factory edge. But I'm sure it depends on your useage. 90% of my EDC use is opening packages and breaking down boxes.
 
good discussion. regarding m390/20cv/204p - I think there is such a large perceivable difference between a 20cv blade with HRc at 58 vs a 20cv blade with HRc 61/62, add to the fact that the market is saturated with examples of this steel, its difficult to navigate the optimal example within that composition. There is a lot of noise in the market.
 
Very good points. My response to a thick-ground blade made from tough steel is to lay the edge back and not worry about the wide bevel. Outdoors55 recently did an interesting video explaining why a wide bevel is more stable than a narrow bevel with identical sharpening angles.


Granted, a 2-3mm wide bevel isn't going to work well for resale value, but I don't buy knives to resell them, so I just sharpen'em like I want'em.
That’s what I do now as well. My winkler, which is a pretty thick knife already came with a pretty steep factory edge and struggled to cut anything easily even with a hair popping edge. I ended up putting a 15 DPS edge on it and holy crap it was a night and day difference in both edge retention which actually improved as well as cutting performance. It now slices through wood better than some of my far thinner knives and almost as good as my convex ground knives with absolutely no issues with the edge chipping or rolling.

Bottom line, if you’re gonna get a thick knife in a really tough steel (like 80CrV2 in my winkler), there’s no reason to not put a really low edge angle on it- it will be able to handle it. I’d say that these sorts of knives should come with low edge angles to begins with but then someone online might say a mean thing about the knife when the steel rolls being hammered through a brick or a bone. (I’m actually pretty confident it would be fine but you never know).
 
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I respectfully disagree. I have many knives in M390/20cv and chipping hasn't been an issue for me ... after getting through the often-burned factory edge. But I'm sure it depends on your useage. 90% of my EDC use is opening packages and breaking down boxes.
I've not had any issues with chipping from boxes and such, and I see those steels as perfectly acceptable for light duty tasks. My issues have been more outdoor related: yardwork, hiking and backpacking, etc. I don't abuse my folders or baton with them, but I do cut a lot of dirty materials, wood, and things like that; and that sort of task seems to chip them often for me, even after a few good sharpenings. I'm not talking large chips, but small ones that have to be sharpened out, which I am loathe to do when I can avoid it. It isn't really surprising though, as M390 has relatively low toughness. It's a steel that excels at cutting cardboard and such, but for my purposes, I like the peace of mind of some additional toughness.
 
On a related note, how is the 3V used for TKC/Tops Field Buddy 5.5? I bought one just recently and have not had a chance to use it.
 
I always thought 3V was not that great as far as corrosion resistance, learn something new everyday.

I know benchmade uses it on their bailout, heard that when it came out there were issues that they ran it way too soft but think they fixed that. Its not a thick blade and its supposed to be more of a workhorse than the Bugout so it makes sense why they used it, was under the impression that the edge retention was not that bad on it, not like 20cv or s90v but still decent? I thought about picking one up but opted for the M4 version with aluminum handles as I hate the grivory, really like it so far
 
Well gotta say these responses have been insightful, I'm not one to put a ton of wear and tear on my knife blades so I don't usually worry about something so tough, but I can see where everyone is coming from. Thanks for the info everybody! Always fun to learn new stuff. Anybody got opinions on magnacut yet? I've got a Spyderco mule in it but haven't done much of anything with it, curious if anyone has opinions on that also.
It's potential hasn't been reached like with other older steels. As we speak , someone, somewhere is testing new heat . It's like s30v when it first came out . It has already pushed the science toward better knife steels and.better heat treatment. Just my 2 cents
 
4V has one third more V than 3V. 3V has 1/4 less than 4V.
I'm holding out for 6V.

I've always wondered why there aren't very many folders available in 3V. I've owned and still own some Cruwear but don't actually use it much. I think Cruwear is a good substitute if that's all you can get. My most used steels are M4 and Rex45. I'm careful with how I use my folders including a couple in S110V. I would be more apt to buy 3V in a fixed blade than a folder.
 
The proliferation of M390 and 20CV blows my mind. I think it is partly due to name recognition of being THE supersteel. I wonder how many people actually use the steel though. I stay away from M390. I've had a ton of knives in it, and it seemed to chip so easily I swore off of it; I will not even consider buying a knife in M390. I don't use my folders super hard, but I also don't like to baby them. Magnacut has been a perfect replacement for me to M390. Much better edge stability, equal corrosion resistance, and comparable edge retention.
I have a few Buck knives with Bos ht in 20cv, a 110, a Vantage pro and a Marksman. I don’t know what the hrc hardness is but I’ve read that they are around 60-61 hrc. I’ve only had some chipping with the factory edge on the vantage. After I’ve hand sharpened into fresh metal it hasn’t chipped any. I use it as my edc at work and I cut a lot of tough materials that include abrasives, ice infused canvas in the winter, plactics, rubber and silicone hose, cardboard triwall, wood, rope and various other materials. I’m also around harsh chemicals and some are corrosive. That knife has heldup very well considering all I have put it through the last 3.5 years. It still is close to new minus some scratches and dings on the handle. There’s been a few times I’ve accidentally run the edge against rusty pipe and it didn’t faze it. I haven’t had any chips or problems with the other ones. My son has a marksman in 20cv he uses on the farm and ranch cutting bale poly twine, feed sacks, tarp, rope and such. His experience is very similar to mine and he’s a little more hard on his knives than I am on mine.

I don’t know what knife you are talking about or the ht but I’ve seen it many times that a factory edge will chip or roll but after hand sharpening into fresh metal it does better. I think sometimes at the factory they burn the apex or press to hard grinding and are tearing or loosening carbides at the very tiny edge of the apex. Thats just my opinion.
 
I'm holding out for 6V.

I've always wondered why there aren't very many folders available in 3V. I've owned and still own some Cruwear but don't actually use it much. I think Cruwear is a good substitute if that's all you can get. My most used steels are M4 and Rex45. I'm careful with how I use my folders including a couple in S110V. I would be more apt to buy 3V in a fixed blade than a folder.
You can get 10V right now.
 
I see people who want folders in 3v, personally, I don't get it.
Why would you want 3v steel in a folder when it has edge retention lower than D2 and it's advantage is excellent toughness and you can't take of in a folder.
Have you ever hit a hidden staple while cutting cardboard? That can chip a blade that's not tough, and it seems that a lot of people cut cardboard.
 
Have you ever hit a hidden staple while cutting cardboard? That can chip a blade that's not tough, and it seems that a lot of people cut cardboard.
I did, a few times, with Spyderco Police 4 and Endela, both with K390 steel. I even accidentally smashed the tip of that Police 4 to concrete ground. No damage to either. I guess one point of discussion here is that for folding knives there exist steel choices that have the needed toughness but better edge retention than 3V. Maybe this is what the OP tries to argue for?
 
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