3v HRC Debacle

Prying 2 by 4’s and bending them to beyond 90 degrees is not what I consider feasible use! That’s absolute abuse and not what a knife is designed for, if it’s what your referring to was the torture test i watched.
 
Dallas T said:
Prying 2 by 4’s and bending them to beyond 90 degrees is not what I consider feasible use! That’s absolute abuse and not what a knife is designed for, if it’s what your referring to was the torture test i watched.
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You didn't watch the edge retention portion?
 
While it was entertaining, buying a knife to destroy and call it inadequate gives no credence to the debate. Torture test is not real world practical use.
 
craytab said:
BM has stated the hrc and the "tests" have confirmed it is in spec...
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55 is still below the 56-59 range that Benchmade has listed. The fact that they have that large of a spread for the hardness tells me it was supposed to be 57-59, but are now in damage control mode. If they truly spec it at 56-59 that tells me that they have very little control over their heat treating process, and that speaks of poor quality.

The performance difference between 56 and 59 is not insignificant.

If a 55 HRC steel suits someone’s EDC tasks, why bother spending a lot on a Benchmade? I’m sure plenty of $10 gas station knives in 440C can meet 55 HRC. Nearly any knife steel at 55 HRC is a waste of metal. Even the crappy stamped steel kitchen knives found in box stores are still 57 or higher.
 
craytab said:
You would hope.

BM has stated the hrc and the "tests" have confirmed it is in spec.

Actual users are fine with the performance.

This is mostly just a bm witch hunt.

There are a few regular bm haters that will find fault with whatever BM does.
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I'd like to know how many people bought one knowing it was that low. I never saw anything from Benchmade saying 56-59 until after they were tested.
Btw, I own one and I have tested 3. The steel sharpens quick and easy, but it doesn't hold an edge half as long as 55 HRC 12C27! As for Benchmade hate, nah..I carry a Freek just about every day. S30V at 60, and it smokes Spyderco's S30V in edge retention at the same HRC numbers. Their M4 clocks in at 63 and performs great. The problem I have is makers, Benchmade included, that don't deliver what you paid for. Their is no excuse for a $400+ knife being 57 HRC. Nor is there one for S30V at 57.5! I don't care what company it is, if they are not delivering what we pay for, I'm going to make sure it gets out.
Back to the Bailout, their new range of 56-59 is ridiculous! 3 points at that range is Grand Canyon wide. If they were consistently coming in around 59, no one would be upset. So far, 3 of them aren't even close.
 
But we all know that hardness is not the only measure of steel, and that the various measurable aspects don't interrelate in a nice easy 1:1 interaction.
I get that there are some folks who are upset, and that's fine, you can be. But lets make sure that we are not arguing the merits of fertilizer vs. flowers. Some of the comments I've seen are the equivalent of being mad that your honda civic doesn't do 200mph because honda makes F1 engines, and so every honda should have F1 performance. Deciding that our little corner of the market is the arbiter of all that is good and holy in the world of steel is a bit fundamentalist. I'm guessing that Benchmade looked at who they were planning on selling the Bailout to, figured that marketing the HRc number wasn't important, chose the steel for its strength and corrosion resistance, and called it a day. Its not some evil plan to flood the market with soft, substandard steel. If anything we all know that steels have limits where hardness starts to really cost the other factors. Benchmade wouldn't be selling the bailout with D3V, that's just not something that can be done on their production scale.
Its a bit rich to be getting salty over well accepted and understood production compromises, as well as acting as though a company shouldn't be trying to sell products at profit. Its the same discussion that seems to happen fortnightly about one maker or another. In fact you could take out the specifics, and use this as a mad-lib and it would fit in almost any "debacle" thread.
 
gadgetgeek said:
But we all know that hardness is not the only measure of steel,
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At 55 HRC, it's the only measure causing the knife to suffer in performance testing. 3V is good stuff. 3V at 55 HRC is laughable. Any EDC knife at 55 HRC is laughable.

To use your Honda analogy, imagine your brand new Honda came with a 3.5L V-Tech engine. Now imagine Honda decided to only put 45 horsepower in that high-tech engine so it would be "more durable", even though the 350 horsepower version would have easily lasted 300k miles.

gadgetgeek said:
chose the steel for its strength
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At 55 HRC, is has no strength. It deforms permanently under loads rather than elastically, and can't hold an edge.

gadgetgeek said:
and corrosion resistance
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No. Even Benchmade has said that they won't offer non-coated blades in this steel because of corrosion.
 
Cypress said:
55 is still below the 56-59 range that Benchmade has listed.
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Nope. Benchmade listed 55-58 in their 2019 catalog. The only place they've listed HRC online.

H2FMJRH.jpg


See page 92: https://www.benchmade.com/media/forms/2019_Benchmade_Catalog.pdf
 
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gadgetgeek said:
But we all know that hardness is not the only measure of steel, and that the various measurable aspects don't interrelate in a nice easy 1:1 interaction.
I get that there are some folks who are upset, and that's fine, you can be. But lets make sure that we are not arguing the merits of fertilizer vs. flowers. Some of the comments I've seen are the equivalent of being mad that your honda civic doesn't do 200mph because honda makes F1 engines, and so every honda should have F1 performance. Deciding that our little corner of the market is the arbiter of all that is good and holy in the world of steel is a bit fundamentalist. I'm guessing that Benchmade looked at who they were planning on selling the Bailout to, figured that marketing the HRc number wasn't important, chose the steel for its strength and corrosion resistance, and called it a day. Its not some evil plan to flood the market with soft, substandard steel. If anything we all know that steels have limits where hardness starts to really cost the other factors. Benchmade wouldn't be selling the bailout with D3V, that's just not something that can be done on their production scale.
Its a bit rich to be getting salty over well accepted and understood production compromises, as well as acting as though a company shouldn't be trying to sell products at profit. Its the same discussion that seems to happen fortnightly about one maker or another. In fact you could take out the specifics, and use this as a mad-lib and it would fit in almost any "debacle" thread.
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I never said anything about hardness being the only measure that is important. Every steel does have an optimal range that it performs best at, so don't discount the importance of it.
I'm not going to use analogies. Honestly, it looks like you are making excuses. When a product is advertised as something, and it turns out not to be, it's not ok. That is a bad business practice, and it's dishonest. I have the means to discover it and air it. I don't care about the name on the box.
As for the Bailout, I doubt they would have sold a thousand units if they had actually advertised the target numbers for this particular model. That may not be dishonest, but it isn't very honorable.
 
gadgetgeek said:
But we all know that hardness is not the only measure of steel, and that the various measurable aspects don't interrelate in a nice easy 1:1 interaction.
I get that there are some folks who are upset, and that's fine, you can be. But lets make sure that we are not arguing the merits of fertilizer vs. flowers. Some of the comments I've seen are the equivalent of being mad that your honda civic doesn't do 200mph because honda makes F1 engines, and so every honda should have F1 performance. Deciding that our little corner of the market is the arbiter of all that is good and holy in the world of steel is a bit fundamentalist. I'm guessing that Benchmade looked at who they were planning on selling the Bailout to, figured that marketing the HRc number wasn't important, chose the steel for its strength and corrosion resistance, and called it a day. Its not some evil plan to flood the market with soft, substandard steel. If anything we all know that steels have limits where hardness starts to really cost the other factors. Benchmade wouldn't be selling the bailout with D3V, that's just not something that can be done on their production scale.
Its a bit rich to be getting salty over well accepted and understood production compromises, as well as acting as though a company shouldn't be trying to sell products at profit. Its the same discussion that seems to happen fortnightly about one maker or another. In fact you could take out the specifics, and use this as a mad-lib and it would fit in almost any "debacle" thread.
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Well said.
 
357snubnose said:
And a few regular bm apologists that will make excuses for whatever BM does.
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I'm no apologist for any company. I don't own many benchmades. 4 or 5 maybe. For my uses, the inherent flaws of the axis lock are an issue (weak detent and the reliance on omega springs). I've stated that I don't even like the idea of this knife and would not buy one.

What I take issue with is the "sky is falling" mentality of these threads. It sounds to me like bm is delivering exactly what they are advertising, yet because BM isn't doing what a few people want on the internet, those loud few turn chicken little.

If you don't like what BM is advertising and selling, don't buy it. I'm not sure how much my simple it gets.
 
I have not bought a new Benchmade since they went to MAP pricing.
The Bailout was going to be the knife that changed that I initially thought.

If they shot for 60 hrc I would of been all for this knife.
I can kinda understand running 3v at 57-58 for a big chopper but a light weight folder 56-59 in3V?!?!?
 
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