3V wakizashi {Not traditional, not trying to be}

Shawn Hatcher said:
Looking forward to seeing your ideas come to life. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Me too!

Keep in mind that any flats ARE going to be prone to scuffing and that was one of the reasons that Hartsfield finished his blades like he did.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Hi Ken,

It's mostly the mountings.....a wakizashi will have a more "katana" like guard, and fittings sized down appropriately....but it will still be a "true" guard.

O-tanto have the smallest guard possible, barely keeping the hand from slipping up onto the blade, shorter handle and smaller in width and girth...and aikuchi mount will have no guard to speak of, more of a bolster or spacer.....14" is about the max length for an o-tanto blade, as commonly accepted.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

Thanks, STeven.

So I have a follow-up if you will indulge . . .

Is it possible then to have a blade where the nagasa is, say, 14-15 inches, and then depending on the mountings you apply it could become either an o-tanto or a ko-wakizashi?

TIA!
 
The Virginian said:
Thanks, STeven.

So I have a follow-up if you will indulge . . .

Is it possible then to have a blade where the nagasa is, say, 14-15 inches, and then depending on the mountings you apply it could become either an o-tanto or a ko-wakizashi?

TIA!
Click to expand...

Somewhat....generally speaking a blade meant as o-tanto with be created from the start as that item(kissaki would be different, and blade thickness/ratios as well).....and there are not a lot of "ko-wakizashi", (I have never seen that term used commonly)....not to say that it cannot be done.

The terms are important as previously stated....and for myriad reasons that I won't get into here, lest I again be accused of being a "Nazi Traditionalist", which is hysterical and also somewhat insulting, because I am a Jew....but that is for another time and place.

Let's be clear about this. I have MY education and ongoing learning which I am actively involved in.....it entails Japanese sword and swordfighting study with some of the best in the world.....and I have attempted over the last 12 years or so to gently(and not gently) pass on knowledge to Western blademakers about what I know, because I think it is valuable and (in many cases) helpful.

The amount of pushback has made this significantly more of an issue than it is worth.....so I'm going to stop doing it in the general sense and leave the general populace to their ignorance...it annoys me when the Japanese masters laugh at a lot of the common errors that Westerners make, and I've done what I can to help limit those errors.

If you have any more questions about this, you can contact me offline, will be happy to share anything that I know with you.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
BenR.T. said:
Thanks Joe.
You got me thinking. I have some ideas, and will do some experiments.

I think Kydex, in one form or another is really the most practical, and cost effective solution. A narrow taco sheath, or maybe more of a scandi style sheath with the seam in the back, and then wrapped in leather or an alternative is probably the route I will go.

These blades are wider than a traditional blade. So a traditional/modern saya adding width to both sides of the blade, doesn't seem like a good option to me.
Click to expand...

Can't wait to see what you come up with

RJ Martin made a sheath for one of his Kwaikens that I have that is Kydex with the leather on both the inside and outside

It's very cool

Good luck I am sure you will do great
 
Shawn Hatcher said:
I really like this idea. The "Ben Tenzashi" reminds me of the Bren-Ten, which reminds me of Jeff Cooper, which warms my heart (and I bet Joe's too!)



:D
Click to expand...
��I could not agree more. Being reminded of the Colonel is never a bad thing. A controversial but charismatic person - I for one reads his writings with interest. Leather Slap matches, IPSC, The 1911, Bren Ten and Scout rifles - whats not to like.
 
JParanee said:
Can't wait to see what you come up with

RJ Martin made a sheath for one of his Kwaikens that I have that is Kydex with the leather on both the inside and outside

It's very cool

Good luck I am sure you will do great
Click to expand...

Is it a two piece sheath? Not sure how I could do that with a one piece kydex sheath.
 
I love this for what it is Ben... Looks like fun and looks very well made..

Kohai999 said:
Somewhat....generally speaking a blade meant as o-tanto with be created from the start as that item(kissaki would be different, and blade thickness/ratios as well).....and there are not a lot of "ko-wakizashi", (I have never seen that term used commonly)....not to say that it cannot be done.
Click to expand...

In terms of fittings, I would agree with the O-Tanto but the blade's heft and width would have me tend to the ko-wakizashi but really, whatever... There's pretty much nothing traditional about this so really it makes no difference.
Masamune did a lot of "kitchen-knife" wide blade Hocho Tantos, so really there's hardly any rule to follow.. I like what you said about the fittings and geometry over the hard rule of length. I'm sure there were "ko-wakizashis" for shorter samurai or in that transition period when the tachi/tanto gave way to the katana/wakizashi as the commonly carried pieces. Even just the treatment of the tsuka could be enough to qualify a piece in either camp.

As a case in point there's a very interesting Kodachi (short tachi) for sale on the Nihonto Message board that looks like an old Kamakura tachi with the koshi sori but has a nagasa of only 56.8cm (22 3/8"). By length one would call this a wakizashi but it most definitely is not.
http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20556


Kohai999 said:
The amount of pushback has made this significantly more of an issue than it is worth.....so I'm going to stop doing it in the general sense and leave the general populace to their ignorance...
Click to expand...

Don't stop STeven. Ignore those who push back as there are many who don't know enough even to ask questions and benefit greatly from your willingness to "tell it like it is". I have benefitted greatly from some of your honest critique.
Just refuse to respond to those who think you're being too traditional.

Kohai999 said:
it annoys me when the Japanese masters laugh at a lot of the common errors that Westerners make, and I've done what I can to help limit those errors.
Click to expand...

I overheard a conversation between our Renshi and 6th dan sensei, both westerners and both of whom had recently been to Japan for Iaido discussing how many Japanese aren't even too happy that Iaido is being taught outside of Japan, let alone those of us out here trying to copy Japanese swords with our western methods and steels. The sword is pretty much religious to them, steeped in the Kami and Shintoism.
Imagine the genuine pain some must feel at seeing the youtube videos of $100 chitanas baseball batting their way through water bottles in the backyards of north america...

Keep keeping it real STeven.. for the sake it.
 
Last edited:
SBranson said:
In terms of fittings, I would agree with the O-Tanto but the blade's heft and width would have me tend to the ko-wakizashi but really, whatever... There's pretty much nothing traditional about this so really it makes no difference.
Masamune did a lot of "kitchen-knife" wide blade Hocho Tantos, so really there's hardly any rule to follow.. I like what you said about the fittings and geometry over the hard rule of length. I'm sure there were "ko-wakizashis" for shorter samurai or in that transition period when the tachi/tanto gave way to the katana/wakizashi as the commonly carried pieces. Even just the treatment of the tsuka could be enough to qualify a piece in either camp.

As a case in point there's a very interesting Kodachi (short tachi) for sale on the Nihonto Message board that looks like an old Kamakura tachi with the koshi sori but has a nagasa of only 56.8cm (22 3/8"). By length one would call this a wakizashi but it most definitely is not.
http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20556
Click to expand...

Hey Stuart,

That is a really nice blade and so indicative of how we can get thrown a curveball by history...however.....if this was mounted up, I'm willing to bet someone would do it as a chisa katana....short blade, long-ish handle. What are your thoughts?

SBranson said:
Don't stop STeven. Ignore those who push back as there are many who don't know enough even to ask questions and benefit greatly from your willingness to "tell it like it is". I have benefited greatly from some of your honest critique.
Just refuse to respond to those who think you're being too traditional.

I overheard a conversation between our Renshi and 6th dan sensei, both westerners and both of whom had recently been to Japan for Iaido discussing how many Japanese aren't even too happy that Iaido is being taught outside of Japan, let alone those of us out here trying to copy Japanese swords with our western methods and steels. The sword is pretty much religious to them, steeped in the Kami and Shintoism.
Imagine the genuine pain some must feel at seeing the youtube videos of $100 chitanas baseball batting their way through water bottles in the backyards of north america...

Keep keeping it real STeven.. for the sake it.
Click to expand...

Man....the politics.....you know about 'em. People think as you rise up in level of your art it is just about secret handshakes and techniques...HAH!!

It's about meeting after meeting and kissing the Pope of the Moment's ring....and you are lucky if you get to train like you did when you were "nata-dan", lol.

Thanks for the encouragement, Stuart, you are a good maker and you "get" it....I'll think about it.....seriously, the ignorance out there is astounding. My Sensei thought that my ability to "speak the language" would bridge over this, and when I explained to him about BFC, he wondered what was wrong with people....all I could answer was "television and video games".

If I suggest a wooden scabbard or a habaki, as you know, I'm not saying it will be or should be "Traditional"....these pieces would benefit from one or both of these elements, and it won't make them vaguely traditional. Joe Paranee has made that argument for and about the scabbard.....if people would learn the skillz necessary to design, solder and create a decent habaki, how is that a bad thing, and wouldn't the benefit outweigh the effort?

Seems to me, if you have the skillz to silver solder a guard, you can make a habaki. If you don't have the skillz to silver solder a guard, and you call yourself a knifemaker....you should learn them.

Take care,

Steven
 
Last edited:
BenR.T. said:
Is it a two piece sheath? Not sure how I could do that with a one piece kydex sheath.
Click to expand...

Ben

Here is a pic of a PH Bkade in the metal Saya wrapped with leather (elephant)

The other is the Martin piece in its original Carbon and wood sheath that has Magnets in it to hold blade

I will snap a pic of the leather lined and covered one he did and also post it

 
Ben I was mistaken :)

RJ uses some type of felt like Phill did



Taco formation wrapped in leather





Imho really takes Kydex to a different level
 
Great thread, great knives, great discussion. :cool:

I'm a big fan of Japanese inspired American knives, I feel it is a genre that is here to stay. I feel most regional styles developed as learning was first hand, with all of the information we now have at reach it is amazing what people can and will continue to do.

With the fully traditionals you better know the market and have the following... gotta stay employed! On the other hand few have the skill to make them and when you do... :D

Outstanding work Ben! I really like the wide blade.
 
Sorry Ben, I don't want to derail your thread with Iaido politics so I'll keep it brief.

Kohai999 said:
Hey Stuart,
That is a really nice blade and so indicative of how we can get thrown a curveball by history...however.....if this was mounted up, I'm willing to bet someone would do it as a chisa katana....short blade, long-ish handle. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...


I figure it was intended as a court piece for either a very short man or maybe some boy who had inherited a position so I would be inclined to mount it in it's 3/4
'ish scale...
 
JParanee said:


Imho really takes Kydex to a different level
Click to expand...

Seems like it was worth the effort....now you can actually use it!
SBranson said:
I figure it was intended as a court piece for either a very short man or maybe some boy who had inherited a position so I would be inclined to mount it in it's 3/4
'ish scale...
Click to expand...

Right on, hadn't considered that.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I really do appreciate all of the commentary guys, whether it all applies to what my goals are or not, I am still learning from it.

Thanks for the pics Joe!
I am assuming on the RJ sheath, the felt is applied with an adhesive, which would have to be done prior to heating the kydex. I guess once it cooled down, the adhesive should remain functional even if it softens during forming.

The PH Sheath would be simpler, as from what I understand it was cold formed aluminum.

I picked up some thin leather yesterday, and am doing some experiments with wrapping kydex. I have another waki and a tanto I am working on right now, and will try out one or two of these styles on them.
 
Great little short sword Ben. I always look forward to everything you're up to.

Great discussion guys.
 
BenR.T. said:
I really do appreciate all of the commentary guys, whether it all applies to what my goals are or not, I am still learning from it.

Thanks for the pics Joe!
I am assuming on the RJ sheath, the felt is applied with an adhesive, which would have to be done prior to heating the kydex. I guess once it cooled down, the adhesive should remain functional even if it softens during forming.

The PH Sheath would be simpler, as from what I understand it was cold formed aluminum.

I picked up some thin leather yesterday, and am doing some experiments with wrapping kydex. I have another waki and a tanto I am working on right now, and will try out one or two of these styles on them.
Click to expand...

Ben that is awesome and I am excited to see what you come up with

Great stuff
 
JParanee said:
Ben that is awesome and I am excited to see what you come up with

Great stuff
Click to expand...

Picked up some nice synthetic suede, it should be great as a liner and less likely to hold moisture or grit than felt.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top