4 Post Hydraulic Press ???

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Feb 28, 2006
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Hi Guys,

Do any of you have any suggestions or opinions for using a 25 ton 4 post hydraulic press for forge work? If all goes well, I'll be getting one for our school. It used to be used for clay work. Chuck Richards, as I recall, you use a 4 post press. Got any intel for us?

Here's the write up on it and a pic.
Manufactured by Pacific Ceramic Machinery & Equipment, this is a 4 post 25 ton hydraulic press. It is made to press clay, but might be applicable for other uses. Daylight is 28" (top to bottom opening) and the table size is 31" wide x 27" deep (out-to-out). It has a 5 hp, single phase, 230 V, 25 amp motor. It weighs about 1,300 lbs. and is in excellent working condition.
Thanks guys, Phil

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Phil,

It should work just fine, actually in some ways better than a press with less guides. It should deal with uneven loads a bit better than your typical forging press. That doesn't mean that you don't need to be careful about side loading stuff though. Make certain your dies are centered and try to work your steel as evenly as possible.

The cool thing about such a big press is that you can easily straighten longish stuff....

-d
 
Phil,

It looks a lot like mine, just a little smaller. How close do the plates come and what kind of travel does it have. You may need to make a set of dies to take up any space not taken up in the travel. Mine has about 12" gap that I made a set of dies out of railroad track pieces. The only problem I have with mine is when I do a heavy press the dies have to be exactly in the middle or it racks the billet. This can be troubling in a nice mosaic. It should work just fine though. If you decide to relocate this to your shop I can take close ups of mine to give you an idea of how I set up my dies. Good luck.
 
Thanks Deker and Chuck!

I'm driving out to take a look at it Friday and see what kind of drive-up access we have. A friend has offered to help get it moved with his flatbed and Bobcat (with forks).I'll be taking some photos while there. Yup, I might need some help with ideas for rigging up some dies.

All the best, Phil
 
Phil, I am sure we can help you.;) Like Ray said bigger pic and more of them. If you haven't got any dies done by the time you come for a visit, we can make them up here.:thumbup:
They had similar presses at Acushnet Rubber Co. for rapid prototypes.
 
I'll be visiting it tomorrow and snapping more photos. Thanks IG. Looks like I'll have to move in! :barf: :cool: :p
 
Hey Friends,

I made my recon visit to the press. It's going to be fun moving...and fun retrofitting. The cylinder presses up from below. There's 28" clearance between the top and bottom platform. I'll have to discuss with the clay teacher to see if she's going to want to use this beast to press clay. If so, and would be fun to be able to, forging retrofits will have to be done without re-engineering the height of the top table. The top die would just have to drop down via how its mounted. The good news is there are three or four tapped holes in each of four corners on both platform that were used to mount the mold frames for the hydra-stone molds for casting/pressing clay. These tapped holes should come in handy for mounting dies.

I only have my couple days using IG's press as a benchmark, but it seems that this press moves pretty slow in comparison to his. I wonder if it can be sped up? Also, the action is run via two separate push switches that must be pressed concurrently, which obviously won't allow forging. They would have to be changed or have another option that can bypassed them, such as a joystick or treadle.

Please let me know what you think gents.

Mahalo, Phil

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Phil, if you put a larger hydraulic pump (higher PSI and GPM) you would get more speed out of the cylinder. What is the RPM's of the motor????
 
Phil,
You are a pretty resourceful guy, so the problems you may encounter won't be too bad, but those units are difficult to use as is. I think Mark Williams had one sitting outside his shop in Hampton....and never used it. I have had enough dealings with you to know that you will take my post not as a negative, but as a stimulus to create a really great ( and proper) press for your students.

I would suggest taking a good look at rebuilding it as a standard H-frame unit.The cylinder and parts are all good, but used as is it may well be too slow and finicky to place 25 tons of force in 2-4 sq.in. of steel. You are going to need to move 11-16GPM through the cylinder to get enough speed to do forging and damascus drawing. The current pump may be fine ( but I doubt it), but at 1750 RPM it only will push half the rated GPM. Jim Batson's book on building hydraulic presses is a great resource. Lots of great math tables and charts.

I know that there are people who use a similar press for blade work, but there are people who use bottle jack presses,too. They may work, but there is a lot of inefficiency.

The biggest drawback is that the unit is made to produce a high pressure, spread out over a large area. This is great for pressing molds,pressing large bearings, laminating things ( home made MyCarta?), and squeezing the air out of Space Bags filled with sweaters and blankets. The problem comes when you try to concentrate all that force in one small spot on a piece of hot steel. Unless the die is placed very rigidly in the perfect center of force, and the alignment of the dies is exact, the carriage will rack to one side and jam ( or bend). Another problem is that you will be handling the work from a foot or more away from the dies, and this may make some tasks difficult ( the large table will extend out about a foot from the dies.
More concern comes from the rating label. "600 cycles per day". I'll round that to 60 cycles per hour, or one cycle a minute ( exactly 1.25cpm). You will need to get 10 or more cycles per minute to do much serious drawing.
The two-hand operation will have to be addressed and modified,too. You will have to come up with a foot operated control switch of some sort.

Consider getting some I-beams and welding up an H-frame to mount the cylinder on. Some creative scrounging may turn up what you need at a construction site or at a construction company lot. They may well give it to your school ( they may even cut it to size).

If it is free, or at a great price, this is a good press.....but it is not a plug and play bladesmithing unit.

Stacy
 
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Thanks IG, Chuck and Stacy!

I saw this press on Graigslist a couple months ago for $2K. I emailed the gal to introduce the idea that if she had trouble selling it she might want to consider donating it to our school. She recently got in touch with me to do just that. The cost will only be that of moving, and even that will be minimal as a building contractor friend and fellow parent of the school will help with the move.

Certainly it is not ideal for forging. Of course, the physical layout is awkward. I have yet to ascertain the specs on the pump and whether it will be adequate when driven by a faster and stronger motor. Same goes for the cylinder I guess. At this point it sounds like the oil tank, the cylinder (perhaps) and maybe the pump might be able to be reconfigured to work within an H frame.

I guess the main thing will be to move it over first. As they say, one step at a time.

All the best, Phil
 
Hey Salem,

When are you moving back to the mainland? It is unlikely I'll have this up and running any time soon. I have to park it for the next few months while our new high school campus is being remodeled. It will likely be well into August before I can start working with it.

All the best, Phil
 
I'll be gone most likey before then. Shoots. I know if it was me I'd probably be spending entirely too much time on it trying to get it up and running right away, but I see you have some constraints on your start date. I'm sure you will be posting once you are welding billets with it, though... Some lucky-a$$ high school kids have your class!
 
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