.410 Shotguns and Youth Guns?

I can only speak for myself here, but I learned to shoot a shotgun with a .410 and was quite good with it. Shot many dove and quail with it before the age of ten. It just so happens that it was the exact model as in Russ' pic, my brother has it now.
 
If it is practical, I would start off with a bolt action .22LR. You can teach him so much more about fundamentals and consistency with that than with a shotgun. The skills he learns with a rifle will set a good foundation for shooting a shotgun safely.

A great drill with a single shot 22 is to place bullets in balloons, blow them up and place them in a field or fairly easy wooded terrain. Start the child off with two bullets, they then have to find and shoot the balloons to recover more ammo. Great drill to improve their situational awareness in a calm, fun environment. How many hunters do you know that will shoot a deer and then have no idea where to even begin tracking it from? This drill will help eliminate that at an early age. You just have to be tough enough to not give them extra bullets when they run out... I recommend having a plan for that situation, it's not easy to tell them they are done, you can always have them do something else to earn the bullets (push-ups, run, recite the Pledge of Allegiance etc..).

Also, when you do put them on a shotgun for the first time, use the absolute lightest loads you can find. They are already going to be nervous, don't add to it by hammering their shoulder. Trust me, I learned this the hard way. I was all excited to take my son turkey hunting and bought him 3 inch magnums for his 20 gauge... He had never shot it prior to that. He's shot plenty of rifles, but never a shotgun. So, we do a little stalk up to a target and I have him crouch down to shoot it, just like the real thing, he shoots, the shotgun fly's up and out of his hands and he fly's back and falls on his butt. Oops... To make matters worse, I couldn't help it and I laughed so hard I almost cried. Really bad job on my part and he still won't touch that shotgun. Maybe next year...

Oh, and I bought the Rossi combo as well. Mine has the 22LR, 20G and a .243 barrel. My Wife took her first deer with the .243! It's a cool combo and will get the job done. If you are looking to make him a pro wing shooter, I would look elsewhere. The shotgun is not "right" in a lot ways, but it's a decent way to start them off inexpensively.

A BB gun is also a great start. Just don't forget to drill in the basics and wear eye-pro!
 
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I would suggest a marlin lever gun in .410 for a starter, the ergo's are better than most single shots. I learned about his age with a single shot .410 myself and did fine hunting with it as well. When its time for a bigger gun I'd just skip the 20 gauge and get him a 12gauge, if your worried about recoil get winchester feather lights. Plenty to take birds and squirrels and very low recoil. I started my daughter on a 12gauge 1897 winchester pump when she was 10 with hand loads and she never had a problem with it.
 
In Ohio we have to use a shotgun, muzzlelaoder, or pistol to hunt deer. My 10 year old daughter wanted to hunt squirrels and deer with me last year so I went around and round on this as well. (she already has her own Ruger 10/22 compact. However houses are so close to my hunting woods that it is dangerous and my family has never used a .22 hunting except varmints. I remember as a kid the first time I started reading of everyone else using a .22 to shoot squirrels up in trees and I thought, how dangerous. Just different areas I guess.)


First I got a Savage single shot .410 but she was unable to cock the hammer and I found that it was so light that it kicked a good deal for her. Experience has shown that it takes more dexterity with her than I am comfortable with for her to lower the hammer if she does not end up taking a shot with an H&R .410 so we got rid of that one too.


Next I got a Mossberg 510 shotgun in 20 gauge because it is totally cut down for a small shooter and has a stock that you can lengthen with spacers as they get older. IMO this is a total youth gun and your child will grow to a size that it is too small for them eventually. However in my experience youth guns are easy to get rid of to friends and relatives. We tried shooting some 20 gauge loads and they were too much for her and she started a flinch. Luckily I reload, so I loaded some squirrel loads down to a .28 gauge level and she can shoot those until she gets tired of holding the barrel up.

Now to our problem....she really wanted to hunt deer. I do not like the idea of handing a novice a muzzlelader. She is very independent and would have lost interest in the "just load it for her and let her shoot it" advice taht I got from old know it alls that I shared my problem with. As wanting to form a lifelong appreciation of hunting is kind of the goal I thought keeping her interested would be a good idea. So no muzzlelaoder, even though I have a few. I would really like Ohio to go to pistol caliber carbines, even if they are single shot, like Indiana has. That would have allowed me to get her a .357 or .44 magnum rifle and loaded tons of practice ammo. However that is not allowed.

I ended up getting her an identical Mossberg 510 in .410 and having a gunsmith drill and tap it for a scope mount. I mounted a dot scope on it and she is accurate to about 40 yards with it. While I agree that a .410 is an experts gun for shooting things on the wing I think if the shots are reasonable for squirrels, rabbits, and yes deer with slugs it is fine. Also if you don't reload you can practice with light 2 1/2" shells and then slip a 3" in for hunting and they will not know the difference. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but it got us out in the field.

This year we started shooting trap. I think she will be hunting pheasants with me and our family Brittany this year.

Good luck on your search, hope this helps some.

Edit to add. Tried a Cricket .22LR first. Thought it was hard for kids to get the bullet into the chamber as there is no ramp. Got the 10/22 and never looked back. 10 rounds to hit a target is just more fun than loading one at a time IMO.

I totally disagree with Cricket on the Marlin and 12 gauge, knowledeable though he is. Marlin is too heavy for youth that age. As for 12 gauge, except for waterfowl and turkeys I have no need for one anymore. I hunt pheasants, quail, rabbits, squirrle, and could hunt deer just as well with a 20 gauge. My daughter could not have held a Win 1897 with a 26" barrel up to even shoot it at age 10. At age 9-10 I had a 12 gauge single shot so my Dad only had to buy one type of shells but I have always been big.
 
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Back when i was 7 I got a single shot bolt action 22, by 9 I got a single shot break action 12 gauge,and shooting trap at age 10 on a competitive level,My Grandfather was a gunsmith so the guns stocks were cut to my shoulder/arm length,,,
My son I bought a cricket 22 at age 7 to learn how to handle and respect a rifle.at age 12 he got a Browning Gold Turkey series semi,,BUT if i was to get my son at age 7 a shotgun I go 20 gauge single break have it fitted for him with a pad and teach him the find points of owning a gun,you can buy one used for under a 100.00 have the stock fit him properly , and if he looses intrest.no great loss you end up wth a nice little camp/snake gun.
I hope you have the same bonding effect my son and i had,they are great memories i ill always cherish.Good luck in your quest of finding him a Gun to Respect
 
Messer may be right about the weight of the marlin, I just didn't think of it. Seemed like it would be a reasonable alternative, I've shortened a lot of stocks for marlins for my kids but they were mostly pistol caliber carbines. The 1897 the daughter shoots is nowhere near a stock gun, shortened stock and 20inch barrel and every part that could be polished and smoothed for speed and ease has been done, course its a cowboy action race gun. It is pretty light. What ever you end up getting make sure to fit the stock for him and put a good pad on it. Also keep in mind light loads for any of them until they get more used to it.
 
It really depends on the size/mass of your son. My two oldest sons were pretty big for their age, so a 20 GA Mossberg was perfect for them at 7. My youngest son, however is "normal" sized and prefers my old .410 single shot. We set clays up on a fence post for him to shoot for now until he gets the hang of swinging the gun.

I still use the .410 for rabbit and squirrel when I'm feeling nostalgic and have taken pheasant, mallards, and wood ducks with it as a boy. My dad even used it as his first deer gun with .410 slugs!
 
First let me thank everyone for the great input. Its a lot to process. Maybe I'm coming at this from the wrong direction; trying to pick a first gun my son can also hunt with. I dont know that he'll even be hunting, or prysically be the one shooting something any time soon. I can probably, reasonably get him shooting a lot sooner than he'll actually be hunting. In NJ, you can't hunt until you're 10. He'll probably pack on a lot of mass in the next 5 years and a gun that is too big now may be just right by then. Or vise versa... it fits him now, but is too small by ten.

While I dont think he can handle a 20g now, it may be perfect in 5 years. I think even though there are concerns of hitting anything with a .410, its probably more suited to him. And just shooting a gun is enough to keep him interested.

This may be a complete 180, but after reading all the replies maybe I should just focus on teaching him to shoot for the next 3-4 years and then turn him loose with a firearm to hunt with later. Maybe I should just be looking for a .22 that he can learn on. I'm still considering a shotgun and will probably end up with a .410. Its not like its going to be his last gun... just the first one.

I really like the mossberg 500 super bantam though, so thanks for the suggestion. It does come in 20g and 410 and it gives you the option to swap out the stock at a later date. I'd also consider a hammer gun. I have a Steven/Savage 94 break barrel with a hammer. I love its simplicity. A small hammer gun is a good option too. Thanks for the input guys. More wisdom and suggestions are welcome!
 
It sounds like your choice on the Mossberg 500 Super Bantam with the option of buying extra barrels ( i.e. a .410 and 20g ) is a good all round solution given the shorter 24 inch barrels available for balance. The stock can be altered to a number of different L.O.P.'s from 12 inches to 13 inches and as he might reach adult sizes he can buy an after market adult stock at 14 inches. From aged 10 the 12 inch LOP ought to work and if he grows big early on then you have that covered too. The receiver can be ordered taped for a picatinny rail or just get it done by a gunsmith and you could add a holograph dot system for shooting slugs for hunting Deer. A gunsmith can always check the fit and if the stock is wood he can steam it to alter the comb height and cast off etc so it fits properly "all round". The other handy thing with a pump is that when the slide is brought back and the chamber open you know it is safe as can be for those initial outings when you are teaching "safety."

Earlier than 10 though ... say in the range of 6/7 as originally suggested ... the weight of the shotgun plays more of a key role and a Pump may be a bit heavy at that age. Not sure on this though as kids seem to be growing so fast these days you might find there is no issue. If there is and you want to teach him a shotgun as opposed to a .22 then I prefer the lighter and better balanced double hammer .410's. Usually the hammer cocking and de-cocking is fine with boys. I know pump actions are popular in the States but when they are young it is harder to get a smooth second shot off compared to the simplicity of a double.
 
PeterPHWS said:
I prefer the lighter and better balanced double hammer .410's. Usually the hammer cocking and de-cocking is fine with boys. I know pump actions are popular in the States but when they are young it is harder to get a smooth second shot off compared to the simplicity of a double.
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Peter- I bet a double hammer .410 would cost about 10 times as much as a pump shotgun over here.....and probably a lot more. It is not something I have ever seen in a gun store.
 
I've seen a couple, they were baikal's if i remember correctly. Could have been some other brand though and the hammers on those are so stiff no kid would be able to cock them. Hell it was all I could do to pull the hammers back. Now a old stevens sxs would work, I've got a old 20 gauge sxs thats light and pretty easy to shoot.
 
That old Belgium one was £350 ... which is cheap over here ... but I take your point that finding old stuff like this may not be easy ...

Most shotguns are well over that price over here ... including Mossbergs ... I will try a bit of google fu and see if there are still cheap .410 hammer guns being made ... I am pretty sure there are some Spanish guns like the one I posted.

Here is a link for the same type of shotgun presently for sale ... this one is only £180 !

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/for...12109-belgium-made-double-folding-hammer-410/

There are also similar guns made by a Spanish company called El Chimbo ... again not expensive ...

It does appear though that these are only available in old models which you have to hunt out ... I cannot see a modern current line ... but over here they are plentiful ... if you can get 10 times the price for these let me know :thumbup: We might have a business plan here ;)
 
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It wouldn't have to be a double barrel. Like I said, my son can already cock the hammer on the Stevens 94 I have. I kind of like the break barrel/hammer idea. My Stevens was only $100 from a consignment type place. I see 12s 20s and .410s all the time. Hmm... maybe I can just get a .410 barrel for the stevens I already have being that the extractor is integral with the barrel. I already swap a 12 and a 20 on it.

Good stuff guys! :thumbup:
 
I'll have to agree with Russ and Adam, among others. The .410 is an awesome learning platform. My first (after the 22 Nylon) was a breakover .410....shame on me, I need to go check the make. Anyhow, I was a mean freaking duck hunter with that thing. Mallards, woodies, teal, didn't matter. I typically outscored my elders....especially on the fast flyers in the trees. When large groups of ducks would come in on us, I could even get two shots off with ease....just have to practice reloading skills :D One of my fondest memories was a massive group dropping in from a norther, and I took out three drake mallards with the lowly single shot .410.

To this day, I am confident that the training I had with my .410 is the reason I am "less viable" with an auto shotty. I tend not to follow through well on my second / third shots. However, when I use my Nova, it forces me to realign / refocus and I do much better. Strange...

Anyhow, another vote for the .410. I also agree though that 6 or 7, depending on your sons maturity could be too young for a shotty. I used to love shooting squirrels / rabbits with my .22lr way before I got into the shotgun realm. Still don't hunt squirrels with a shotgun.....22lr is much mo fun :D
 
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