420 HC vs. AUS 4

longbeachguy

longbeachguy

Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
2,533
Let me first make the disclaimer that I know little to nothing about steel and/or metallurgy so if this question sounds very ignorant, that is why.

It's just that in reading this board and others it seems to me that 420 HC gets grudging respect based on Buck blades and it's common usage by Case and other companies in slipjoint blades, whereas AUS 4 is universally dismissed out of hand as pure crap, most often in connection with its use by CRKT in various of it's lower priced offerings.

Based on the steel guide at the AG Russell website http://www.agrussell.com/knife_information/steel_guide/index.html it would seem that these two steels are fairly similar in chemical composition, and all else being equal, should have somewhat similar properties.

The only reason I'm worrying myself about these cheap steels is I'm trying to reason myself into not having a complete distaste for my CRKT M16-13Z, which I thought had AUS 6 when I bought it (I know still not great) and only after found out it was AUS 4.

Anyway, if someone who has some knowlege could chime in I'd be at least temporarily grateful.
 
I'm not the best person to answer you, but I'll tell you it has a lot to do with heat treatment. Buck gets props for their 420HC bec ause they have an ecellent heat treat. Both are crap steels and I would never buy a knife in either when it comes down to it. I suggest just scoping out the knife scene a bit more. For what you paid for that CRKT, you could have a much better knife with quality steel (Spyderco).
 
J85909266 said:
I'm not the best person to answer you, but I'll tell you it has a lot to do with heat treatment. Buck gets props for their 420HC bec ause they have an ecellent heat treat. Both are crap steels and I would never buy a knife in either when it comes down to it. I suggest just scoping out the knife scene a bit more. For what you paid for that CRKT, you could have a much better knife with quality steel (Spyderco).
Click to expand...

Oh I know about Buck blades being heat treated to Paul Bos specs and all. I have about 10 Spydercos, mostly with VG 10 but I also have the Walmart Native with S30V. I even have a Benchmade Mini-Skirmish.

So it's not so much that I need a better knife, I just find that I never put it into the rotation because of the AUS 4 steel.

And before anyone tells me to get an M16 with aluminum handles and AUS 8 steel, I already have one of those too!

If you're wondering why I even care about this crap knife under the circumstances, it's because I'm a knife knut and I want to find something to like about all of them! Damn this disease...

This is a really stupid post, isn't it.

Here, let me do this for you: :yawn: :jerkit: :yawn: :jerkit: :yawn: :jerkit:

:D
 
Best advice I can give you: go out and try it!

My EDC is an M2 BM 710HS (~$120), but I also picked up a Buck 889 (Strider/420HC) for about $45. Is the 710 worth twice as much? Not really...
 
Something good about it? You could do worse with CRKT's 420J. Now it is embarrasing when the liner on one of your other knives is the actual blade steel on your CRKT.
 
Buck's 420HC is not bad at all. My Buck 110 is enough to convince me that it can and does work in a knife. Its a great steel for a 'beater knife'.

STR
 
STR said:
Buck's 420HC is not bad at all. My Buck 110 is enough to convince me that it can and does work in a knife. Its a great steel for a 'beater knife'.

STR
Click to expand...

Do you think that means that if heat treated the same way as the Buck, an AUS 4 blade would perform about as well?

That's what I'm wondering.

I agree about the Buck 420HC by the way. My 112 takes forever to get even a little dull, then pops right back with a few swipes on a sharpening steel.
 
I really can't speak for AUS4 personally because I have never used it. I doubt the heat treat is the same for both steels as each steel has its own temp, and heat time as well as other key differences. They each bake to a different recipe in other words.

I would have to guess that the AUS4 would be a good tough steel with less carbon than either AUS6 or 8. It is probably the Japanese equal to 420HC much the same as ATS34 is to our 154CM. Six of one half dozen of another. For me anyway the jury is still out on AUS4. I have not seen it in any knives I've been interested in and it has not shown up in my shop on a knife in for a repair or a pocket clip for me to form any real opinions about it.

STR
 
It looks like no one's willing to cop to actually buying and using one of these AUS-4 CRKTs, much less testing it thoroughly against other mid- or low-end steels.

Hey Cliff, I know how much you dislike CRKT products, but if I sent you an M16-14Z, would you be willing to give it your usual battery of tests? Some comparative non-destructive tests vs. my aluminum-scaled AUS-6 M16-14? (I'm willing to sacrifice one knife, but not two!) And including, I hope, a proper test of the LAWKS?
 
To be completely honest: I wouldn't want to be caught with either :barf:....I do one a couple of 420HC blades though....and am not proud of it.
 
longbeachguy-

use the knife. cut up some boxes, whittle a branch, take it fishing, cycling, jogging. carry it and use it when you are in a situation where you worry about losing or breaking a "good" knife.

when I have a knife I am not fond of, an impulse buy perhaps, or a gift, I put it in my tool box, or in my truck, or I leave it on the boat, for those rare times when I need a knife, and don't have one. :eek: Or when there is a bad job that I don't want to guck up or break my edc.

or give it away. someone will use it and like it. everyone's tastes are different. perhaps you have a friend that needs a knife. donate it to a soldier in iraq. if you can't enjoy the knife, someone else may.

Pete
 
Pete1977 said:
longbeachguy-

use the knife. cut up some boxes, whittle a branch, take it fishing, cycling, jogging. carry it and use it when you are in a situation where you worry about losing or breaking a "good" knife.

when I have a knife I am not fond of, an impulse buy perhaps, or a gift, I put it in my tool box, or in my truck, or I leave it on the boat, for those rare times when I need a knife, and don't have one. :eek: Or when there is a bad job that I don't want to guck up or break my edc.

or give it away. someone will use it and like it. everyone's tastes are different. perhaps you have a friend that needs a knife. donate it to a soldier in iraq. if you can't enjoy the knife, someone else may.

Pete
Click to expand...

Very true. Actually it was already destined to be used as a beater or given away.

Thanks.
 
I have good experiences with Buck's 420HC, IMHO much better steel even than CRKT's AUS 6, let alone AUS 4.
 
I think you will find that the materials used in a knife often meet opinions based on the maker of the knife rather than the materials employed. In other words, if the knife maker is respected, then the materials are respected. The reverse is true of makers that have less respect.

Reality is that every cutlery steel has its strengths and weaknesses. 420 and AUS 4 are strong in the area of corrosion resistence and toughness and weak in the area of hardness, regardless of what maker employs them or whether or not there is an HC suffix attached to it. These steels don't usually gain much respect from members of this board because the members of this board tend to prefer harder steels with better edge retention characteristics.

I'm not trying to make value judgements. I'm just trying to explain how knife knuts react to the "steel issue." Hopefully that's a fair layman's response to your question.
 
Gryffin said:
... I know how much you dislike CRKT products
Click to expand...

I dislike the website, there are no pictures so you have to click on each link, but the products are different. The Point Guard I used I am fairly indiffernet towards, it was basically an average lost cost "tactical" folder. Nothing overly impressive aside from the torque resistance, but aside from the lock issues, nothing really disappointing either, and considering that I have seen problems of that type with a lot of other folders, I don't fault it that much.

I scanned through a recent catalogue and the level of innovation is fairly high. They seemed to be geared towards the lower price market hence the lower cost steel. The problem is Spyderco is now putting out the 4Gen Endura which really raises the standard for inexpensive Zytel folders so it is harder to push the "lower end" steels. C

RK&T does offer a lot of models though, some really speed hole based like the Point Guard but some a lot cleaner like the BULL. Note the reaction they get would probably be a lot different on forums which are not so elevated. A hiker group for example would appreciate that class of knives and probably just gaze with wonderment at $150+ G10/S30V folders.

Email responded to.

-Cliff
 
By the way there is a mistake in the AG Russell steel table. He accidently puts down the same hardness range for 420HC as for 420J2. The real range for 420HC is around 55 to 58. Buck hardens theirs to 56-58.
 
Jeff Clark said:
By the way there is a mistake in the AG Russell steel table. He accidently puts down the same hardness range for 420HC as for 420J2. The real range for 420HC is around 55 to 58. Buck hardens theirs to 56-28.
Click to expand...
looks like I am not the only one who can make a mistake!:D :D
 
Good one A.G.!

As previously stated the heat treat is the trick. AUS4 is probably the 420HC equivalent, just like the German 1.466 is very close to 440A or AUS6 or ...........
 
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