- Joined
- Mar 19, 1999
- Messages
- 2,277
What temp were you taking it to? It should be in the 1820-1850 range.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
420HC steel?
- Thread starter Teague
- Start date
What temp were you taking it to? It should be in the 1820-1850 range.
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2007
- Messages
- 4,293
Buck's 420HC does in fact rock.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2008
- Messages
- 5,911
That is interesting. It goes to show that we all can fancy ourselves as pretty knowledgable yet not know some important elements about knife steel. To me, with all I've been through in the last 2 years of real knifedom knife steel is still a vague notion apart gtom the latest super hard compounds.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2005
- Messages
- 2,826
Even with outstanding heat treat, 420HC is still 420HC. I agree with what others have said about Buck's famous heat treatment, but most reputable knife manufacturers have decent heat treatment processes for their blades. There are a number of steel comparisons available on the Internet and, of course, people here who have used it for years. What makes 420HC better than other grades of 420 is the high carbon (HC) content. According to Timkin Latrobe Steel, "420 HC is a high-carbon martensitic stainless steel which exhibits an attainable hardness of approximately 55 HRC and good wear resistance. TLS 420 HC should be considered for applications such as specialty knives, industrial knives, cutlery, rolls, plastic extrusion tooling, scissors, surgical knives, bearings, and other applications which require a combination of corrosion resistance and wear resistance."
Buck rates its steel generously, placing it a step or two over AUS8 and comparing favorably with ATS-34. I have my doubts. Check out A.G. Russell's Steel Guide chart for further information. Edge retention is usually associated with carbon content and I think 440C, ATS-34, VG-10 and S30V are all clearly superior, again, depending on heat treat. Realistically, it's probably somewhere between 440A and AUS8, some saying it may rate a little more than AUS8. I've yet to see any actual tests other than subjective accounts and I have my doubts; but that's the ball park. I've found that Cold Steel's AUS8 is excellent.
Buck rates its steel generously, placing it a step or two over AUS8 and comparing favorably with ATS-34. I have my doubts. Check out A.G. Russell's Steel Guide chart for further information. Edge retention is usually associated with carbon content and I think 440C, ATS-34, VG-10 and S30V are all clearly superior, again, depending on heat treat. Realistically, it's probably somewhere between 440A and AUS8, some saying it may rate a little more than AUS8. I've yet to see any actual tests other than subjective accounts and I have my doubts; but that's the ball park. I've found that Cold Steel's AUS8 is excellent.
I would probably have started a new thread to ask a question. This thread has not seen daylight in 5 years and some of its posters are not even around anymore. I know you are new but we try to discourage digging up ancient dead threads to ask an unrelated question.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,281
It's not completely unrelated.
People complain that new users don't use the search function. People complain that old threads are posted in. What do you want?
As for the question, I find buck to be hit or miss. They have some very nice knives, like the buck vantage series. Their slipjoints in my experience have a weak spring. The 119 is a nice knife. You shouldn't have problems with it.
Here's some cold hard truth to Buck's 420HC...
All of their American made knives in 420HC are hardened to 58rc just like the BOS Treatment indicates...then there's the cryo treatment. If you walk into a K-Mart or Wally World you'll see on a blister packed 110 or 119 the heat and cryo treat stamping on the packaging. If you look at a select series knife by Buck and only the heat treatment is mentioned...some people don't catch on to that. Is there a differential in performance?heck yes...a Buck Ranger holds a noticeably better edge than a Vantage Select or a Bantam.So basically the cheaper knives by Buck aren't the maxed out version of 420HC and don't show you how much Buck can soup up this steel.
All of their American made knives in 420HC are hardened to 58rc just like the BOS Treatment indicates...then there's the cryo treatment. If you walk into a K-Mart or Wally World you'll see on a blister packed 110 or 119 the heat and cryo treat stamping on the packaging. If you look at a select series knife by Buck and only the heat treatment is mentioned...some people don't catch on to that. Is there a differential in performance?heck yes...a Buck Ranger holds a noticeably better edge than a Vantage Select or a Bantam.So basically the cheaper knives by Buck aren't the maxed out version of 420HC and don't show you how much Buck can soup up this steel.
I'm sorry I have to disagree with that statement and here's why...
440A alone had 0.65-0.75% in carbon while 420HC is at 0.45-0.50% and AUS-8 is 0.70-0.75% in carbon
440A had 0.75% in molybdenum to contribute dulling resistance while 420HC doesn't possess molybdenum or vanadium...which is why 440A is a slower sharpening stainless.AUS-8 you'll only get 0.10-0.30% in moly
With Buck doing both the heat and cryo treat to really harden the steel(on certain knives) it is slower dulling to rope and cardboard and the best results you'll ever see from 420HC.
440A alone had 0.65-0.75% in carbon while 420HC is at 0.45-0.50% and AUS-8 is 0.70-0.75% in carbon
440A had 0.75% in molybdenum to contribute dulling resistance while 420HC doesn't possess molybdenum or vanadium...which is why 440A is a slower sharpening stainless.AUS-8 you'll only get 0.10-0.30% in moly
With Buck doing both the heat and cryo treat to really harden the steel(on certain knives) it is slower dulling to rope and cardboard and the best results you'll ever see from 420HC.
I have got a few knives from Buck 420: one is an old Sirus that I have got in trade a few years ago, much more recent Impulse, classsic 110, EcoLight and Vantage that I have bought in Walmart. All of them feel quite decent, except for Vantage, which is probably the worst knife that I have ever owned, and I actually have something close to 300 even now... It's so soft that it not only does not hold the edge, it's difficult to sharpen too because of the burr! It's sure is not cost-related, because EcoLight being even cheaper has much more decent HT on it! Sirus on another hand was a nice surprise: a knife that I have got by chance and my first Buck that sort of changed my original attitude towards 420. If that were the Vantage that I bought the first, I am pretty sure it would be also my last Buck!
P.S. And Alaskan Guide from Cabelas is of course not a good example of Buck 420 HC - it has got s30v blade as far as I know.
P.S. And Alaskan Guide from Cabelas is of course not a good example of Buck 420 HC - it has got s30v blade as far as I know.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2010
- Messages
- 5
No competent blade smith who makes knives by hand would ever use 420 stainless, HC or otherwise.
Last edited:
I had a Squire in 420HC and gave it to my daughter for use when camping. I have some other Bucks, but when I got a new Squire from the Buck custom shop, it was in S30V.
I have never been happy with the edge holding of 420HC, but my daughter tends to destroy knives. I figured that she can't ruin the Squire. The steel is tough for a stainless.
When she comes to stay over for a visit, I hide my good kitchen knives.
I have never been happy with the edge holding of 420HC, but my daughter tends to destroy knives. I figured that she can't ruin the Squire. The steel is tough for a stainless.
When she comes to stay over for a visit, I hide my good kitchen knives.