420HC vs 12C27M

First off, isn't this discussion moot for new knives, as Buck has been dropping out Swedish steel from its offerings.

Second, Yep Zombie, however the info is decent and informative, so will not say anything bad to Frotier76 (I know Pinnah was likely typing all night and didn't pay attention to the date). Frotier, here on the Buck forum we hope that if you want to discuss a dead thread that you just start another one with just a few insert copies of the basic important statements in your post. Then you are the first poster and it has a new date. As David said the new term for threads several years old is 'Zombie' thread. I have some Zombie bullets, maybe I need to start using them..... Not long ago someone pulled one up so old that two people who had posted in it had died. Please folks, especially you fairly new posters, start a new thread if you want to discuss a old one. You can always reference back to the old thread with a link (this method gets my vote), but ask your questions or give you answers and the people that still live will get involved.......

If anyone is shy about asking for tech help in doing stuff like linking, putting info quotes into boxes to insert, etc. please just ask, there are lots of smart and NOT smart a-- guys here who will be glad to give you pointers thru your PM account.

300Bucks Moderator
 
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When talking 1095, please do not forget that Buck now offers a few blades made with 5160 which is many steps above 1095.

As to Mora blades...I have a few and they do cut great, but I wonder how much is due to the grind. My personal experience with Mora blades is that they do not how an edge as will has 420HC and 440C is even better. I also recently watch a video on rusting blades in which they sprayed water on different knife blades made from different materials. They then repeated the test using salt water. I was a bit shocked to watch 440C be the last to rust and not until the very end of the test and then only slightly. I very much enjoy Bucks 420HC, but 440C is still my choice when staying under the super steel grade materials. Of the better steels I currently enjoy playing with D2, 154, and s30v. I still need to aquire a 3v blade to test. I do know of the three better steel blades I have they all retain an edge way, way longer then even 440c. One user claims to be able to process as many as 6 deer before sharpening the blades while 440C would offer the ability to only process one from field to freezer, meaning to skin, debone, and cut all your steaks and such. I find the 440C to almost make it to the end of a big deer and D2, 154, and s30v getting me through more than one.
 
I don't think this was what the original poster was getting at. However, it's going on...
Way back Buck was more conservative in their heat treatment of 440C. Taking it to 59rc it will cut right with 154cm and S30V. This also improves it stainless abilities and reduces the size of it's carbides. Yes, agreed, using a blade of Buck's 440C it will do one large mule deer when sharpened correctly and only as high as the coarse diamond or
Norton's fine India. Yet, taking it one point higher, hardness it will do more without any brittleness. Plus, the mfg. have refined the melting process since the 60's. Heck, a guy that processes ONE 225lb. buck in a day is wore out anyway and ready to put his knife down. Those carbon steels just can't muster that much performance. Except if you include D2. DM
 
David, I've really taken a shining to the 440C on my old 500 (and old 110). Such a different feel than 420HC. I agree it's better for meat and such.

Is there any similarly toothy carbide steel that can be more cheaply produced at production levels?

IMO, low carbide steels like 420HC, 12C27 and 1095 make more sense in wood working, whittling and so-called survival knives but less so for hunting knives.
 
Well actually for me that's completely the opposite.I actually think 420HC,Sandvik in general,and 1095 Carbon Steel aren't only excellent carving and essential pocket knife steels.But also of hunting steels they're my personal favorites and provide the best cutting quality.And not to sound too off topic here but I don't think super steels like the 277 Alpha Hunter in S30V or even ATS-34 weren't the right 'flavor' of steel for a hunting knife but very high edge retention steels sell.When I use the term 'flavor' I mean a steel that can take a really good edge with little time involved.
 
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Well not to sound offensive 300 Bucks or condescending but 'Zombie threads' or refreshing older posts isn't exactly a bad thing.Let's say someone bought a gem of a knife that was discontinued eight years ago with little info provided by previous posted threads.Well someone coming back to that thread and freshening up the information would be contributive to other Bladeforum's members.After all I thought as members it was part of our duty to be informative and contributive to fellow cutlery lovers out there.And from an archival perspective we should be the library of information for knives manufactured that we encounter.
 
Yes I agree in principal, my input was really a discussion on 'method'. Rather than bump the entire four year old thread back, talk about what you wanted to say, maybe put in some past quotes and provide a link to the old thread. Then folks don't to have to scroll thru several pages for someone to ask a one or two sentence question. Its all about having good forum technique. If you dig in the past threads you will find some where people bumped a 7 or 8 year old thread. I remember in one of those Buck had quit making the knife they were talking about, like it was a new offering then.......... 300
 
Many who bring back OLD topics could have said everything he wanted in 1-2 sentences and didn't need all the other trimmings to substantiate his thoughts. Why is it sooo hard to start a new one?? To say that? And like you said just piggy back off the pertinent parts, bringing those back for his thinking. I see this soo much in the Buck Forum. I'm sure some use poor Forum etiquette in others areas, we just see it here. Much of this recent discussion is not where Flatlander was going. DM
 
Frotier76 said:
As old as this thread is it seems to be at a standstill so I'll jump in with my thoughts.I bought the 277 model of the folding Alpha Hunter a few years ago despite the whole 154CM vs. 12C27 Mod controversy.If you're expecting the Sandvik 12C27M to be on the edge retention spectrum of super steels look elsewhere.But it is a couple notches better in edge life than 420HC.Same ballpark in carbon(0.52%) but purity makes the edge life brighter.That's also because Buck can generate a few more points higher in hardness in heat treatment (59-60rc).420HC sharpens up well but Sandvik 12C27 Mod takes a really good edge for a stainless because it's pure...very similar to the old carbon steels like 1095 in edge definition.Buck's 420HC you can't go wrong but Sandvik 12C27 Mod is a very positive step up as a hunting and natural materials cutting steel.If Buck Knives does ever drop 420HC for their hunting steel it will be Sandvik.It should have been put on slipjoint knives as a stainless offering 30 years ago.
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Yes, I agree. The Sandvic 12c27m gets very, very sharp and does so easily. Then, it stays sharp a little longer than the 420HC (a little). As to the earlier mentioned 425M I find 12c27 superior in most every way. 425M is my nightmare to sharpen steel (worse than D2!). Out in the field it can be a real bear. But, it holds up well to hard use. 425 has lower carbon than 12c27 but more chromium. I was happy when Buck moved away from 425, but I loved their old 440C. I have knives from a few different makers in 12c27 and I like the steel. I prefer the 14C28 as it is really a good steel.
 
Well aside from all the major thumbs up I give to the 12C27 and 12C27 Mod there is a flaw from the purity I noticed in every Sandvik I've used and that's micro chipping.For the farmer,hunter,or just use around the homestead many won't encounter this.But I have cut plastic ties (or any kind of synthetic material requiring high tension) and Sandvik gets brittle on that level and 420HC or 440A holds up rather well.I'm assuming(hate to use that word) that reducing the alloying content of a stainless steel lowers the edge durability in industrial use.
 
More off topic... To say the Sandvik has more carbon than 425 is splitting hairs. To me 425M is not a nightmare to sharpen. Much depends on your technique and the stone. I can field sharpen 425M on a 2X3"1970's Norton fine India stone with just water. Granted it is a little more difficult to sharpen than 420 because of it's vanadium and chromium content. But this is also what gives it greater edge retention. IF you can sharpen 440C you should have no difficulties with 425. It's the mfg. method and purity of the Sandvik steel that helps it. I've run in to 425 that was hardened to 59. Just like one can do 440C. Buck moved to Sandvik more because of it's purity and it was not hard on tooling.
Both of these are good cutlery steels. DM
 
With the right stones D2, 154, S30V, and even 3V can all be sharpened by hand in less than 10 minutes. Heck, I've seen complete major reprofiles of 3V blades done in 20 minutes or less using stones.
 
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I've seen the video you spoke of earlier. Yes, 440C faired well. I think it would have done even better with a mirror polished blade. As this helps most steels resist rust. Yes, the stone matters. DM
 
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