425 and 420HC

J

JMC

Joined
Nov 24, 2002
Messages
14
Could anyone tell me what the difference is between bucks 425 and 420HC steels. Are these two steels of the same hardness.:confused:
 
They both suck, seriously, get a knife with a better steel. They are both at the bottom end of the stainless steel charts. Not as bad as 420J2 but not as good even as 440C which is what i would consider the lowest end stainless for a blade.
 
Although I don't know exactly what the difference is between these two steels relative to each other, I can tell you that there is no need to hesitate about getting a knife which features either one of them.

Far from "seriously sucking" as Mr. Rifter states these steels are excellent for a beginner or everyday user knife, as they sharpen easily and are very corrosion resistant; as well as being affordable. If you look I think that you will find that the majority of genuine knife users (as opposed to collectors and connoisseurs) carry a knife made ouf of these sorts of steels and have no complaints. Buck, Camillus, Leatherman, and Victorinox all use this or similar steels on their basic blades without problems.

If you feel that you are going to be using this knife very hard or very often then you may benefit from a better steel. Generally most users never push their blades to the point that it would make a tangible difference.
 
I've never used 425 personally, but according to it's composition it would probably perform relatively similarly to 420HC, maybe anyway.

I can tell you however that 420HC is a wonderful alloy if you don't mind sharpening your knife after a couple weeks of moderate use (which is really no big deal, since it takes about 10 seconds to sharpen up steel this soft).
420HC has alot of things going for it such as:
1. It's incredibly cheap. Because 420HC is so soft, it can be blanked out rather than laser-cut like harder alloys
2. It's incredibly corrosion resistant, since Chromium is basically the main element of the day in the 420 series of stainless steels, they require only the most minimal attention.
3. I like the edges 420HC yields, because of that extra carbon (which gives 420HC it's "HC" suffix) there's a very strong case of... oh dang the term's not coming to me, it's when the various carbides along a steel's edge wear unevenly, yielding a biting edge... anyway, the point is 420HC yields wicked biting and slicing edges, I actually tend to sharpen my 420HC knives at only medium grit on my Spyderco 204 as I feel this makes best use of the carbide deally-I-Can't-Remember-Someone-Please-Help-Me-So-I-Can-Edit-This-Post-To-Be-More-Eloquent-:).

anywho 420HC is tough, corrosion resistant, cheap, yields a great working edge in no time, and in my experience with Buck, Camillus, and Kershaw, their 420HC is tempered so well you can scarcely tell the difference performance-wise between it and 440A.
 
upon thinking about it they are right, it would probably do its job as long as you didnt push it too far. Its not going to be as good as the better high end Stainless steels(BG42, S30V, D2)but it would be ok. I do admit after spoiling myself with customs and high end knives it makes cheap steel look worse than it is. I did have a buck 110 in 420HC a long time ago. It did its job fine but i snapped the blade on purpose once to see what it would take to break, did this when i got my PCKS 110(BG42 Steel) to replace it.
 
These two steels are very similar and are really not that bad. They are inexpensive and both work well with high production tooling. That also helps make it more economical for companies to make knives using these steels.

I have seen 420HC and 425M blades with a hardness of 57-58RC. That is not that bad at all. It should hold an edge fairly well. Any Buck knife that I have had have been pretty good in this respect.
 
They are fine at their price point.., and serve the needs very well for 95% of users need IMO. Easy to sharpen.., and hold a darn good edge when heat treated properly...

Most people that pay for premium steels don't need it anyway.., and Buck has pretty much got the treatment of these steels down to a science. They are simply trying to control the price point and not compete with the high-end folks...

If you need a great knife..., it's not going to be $50.00...


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
Thanks to everyone for your replys. I have a '90 Buck 110 and I've just picked up the 560 Ti model. I was trying to figure out if it is worth the extra to upgrade the blade for a EDC.
 
420HC has finer carbides and takes a finer edge than 425M. That's why Buck switched. For most users 420HC will take a finer edge than the 440 series. It is not as hard as the 440 series and will wear faster.
 
not bad,but not great.
pros and cons?
pro's:
easy to sharpen
cheap
rust resistant
cheap
cheap

cons:
break out the sharpener


now that im thinking of it,the fact that you have to sharpen 420 more often is probably the only down point.

i would reccomend it to someone who needs something that will withstand a very wet or humid environment or doesnt want to pay for talonite.
 
Maurice, that would be the case with 420 because of it's very low carbon content (as low as .15%), but 420HC is more likely to rust than a lot of other stainless steels. That is because it not only can have as much as .55% carbon, it also has a fairly low chromium content (as low as 12%).
 
Seems to me that out there in the "real world," most people who actually use there knives as working tools get along fine with their Bucks and Schrades and such with their "cheap steels."
But in the world of "high end" knives, with the exotic steels, their users never push them much past the chore of opening mail.
For the most part anyway.
 
Originally posted by knzn
Seems to me that out there in the "real world," most people who actually use there knives as working tools get along fine with their Bucks and Schrades and such with their "cheap steels."
But in the world of "high end" knives, with the exotic steels, their users never push them much past the chore of opening mail.
For the most part anyway.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd say thats about right.

I've seen what the technicians at work carry (and really use hard) and it is invariably a leatherman or SAK, or Buck, or Gerber or something similar. THey don't seem to have any complaints, and actually have some good laughs at high class knifenuts.

I think it's really funny when people pay top dollar for a high end knife with the latest and greatest steel and locking mechanisms and then carry around a "beater" knife for the hard stuff that they are afraid to use their real knife for "because I paid so much for it and I don't want it to get hurt". Perhaps they would be better off carrying just the beater.
 
Originally posted by knzn
Seems to me that out there in the "real world," most people who actually use there knives as working tools get along fine with their Bucks and Schrades and such with their "cheap steels."
But in the world of "high end" knives, with the exotic steels, their users never push them much past the chore of opening mail.
For the most part anyway.
Click to expand...

For the most part, I agree with you.

But, I would like to add, of those that do push their knives, many have no clue how to sharpen them.

420HC is fine if you have the skill and tools to regularly sharpen/strop. Most don't. Especially those who are unwilling to pay more than $20-30 for a knife.

-- Rob
 
I used a 420HC blade for a while. It cut up six apples OR cleaned two 2lb rainbow trout before needing to be touched up with the sharpmaker.

I switched to 440C for cleaning trout and more than tripled the number of fish I could clean or fillet before touch-up was required.

Got a Microtech fillet knife with s30v about a year ago and have cleaned and filleted a whole season of trout without doing anything more than wiping off the blood and guts. Not a pretty knife but some incredible edge holding by this particular steel.

Guess my point here is my experience has been that 420 requires lots of time to keep sharp...and some other steels way less time. If you like that sorta thing then 420 is probably the stuff for you.
 
I,ve used my old buck 110 for years but I,ve never pushed it's limits. I can't bring myself to risk destroying the thing. I have only used ATS-34 steel blades a few times, not enough to compare edge holding. It probably doesn't help matters that I am obssessive about keeping my knives sharp. So I was just curious how 425 and 420HC compared to the new stuff.
 
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