440C as a EDC steel?

440C is a pretty good steel if it's done right, but a huge step back from VG10. BTW if you like the knife itself, and the price is right, buy it. I also considering a Buck Mayo Hilo after 154CM, BG42 and M2 blades.

BTW anybody has information about Kershaw's new MIM technology?
 
A lot of knives in Europe are still 440...wanna know something funny? I just got a stainless Douk-Douk and then there's my several SAK in something like 440 and know what? they all outcut many of the "superknives" I own! :eek:

I'm kinda happy with plain 'ol 440 thank you! :cool:
 
I have a Mini-grip in 440C. I guess I need to let it know that it isn't as good as other steels and to stop working so damn well!

Who does it think it is holding a razor edge for so long!?!

;)
 
smcfalls13 said:
440C is the jack of all trades, it handles every well, but excels in no particular area. The newer supersteels excel at either edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, how sharp it gets, or corrosion resistance, but usually are weaker in the other areas because of it.

440C is a good all around steel. It does suffer some disdain from it's association with the 440A and 440B. I wonder if 440V was changed to S60V to avoid the same association?
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In fact the 440V and 420V tradenames used by Crucible at that time were changed to S60V and S90V because of the poor quality connotations associated with 440A and 420. While working for Crucible I trademarked the S30V -S150V series to cover corrosion resistant wear resistant materials for Knife blades.

The original names Crucible used referred to the Cr content of the base metal and interesting enough the 420V material was more wear and more corrosion resistant than was the 440V even though it has lower Cr content. The trick was how much Cr is available in the matrix to offer corrosion resistance and how much was tied up as a carbide.

With respect to 440C it is a wonderful alloy and given the tradeoff between performance and cost it is a very good material. The alloys in 440C are all quite inexpensive when compared to the elements used in the higher priced materials. For instance Cr costs about $.50 per pound where as Mo costs about $30.00 per pound. When adding some of the more exotic alloying elements you can run the cost up quite quickly. One nice thing about 440C is all the elements it is made from are inexpensive and the material works.

As long as you understand what the alloy is and don't expect more from it than it can do it will work well for an EDC.
 
I got my Mini-Pika in the mail today and wow is it sharp!

Of the dozens and dozens of new knives I've held in my life, this is definately one of, if not THE sharpest out of box edge I've seen.

I'm extremely impressed. I think this knife is about the perfect knife that fits between a cheapie beater knife, and something "high class."

I've been carrying the Spyderco Blue Alemite Walker recently, and with its VG10 steel, alum handles and mirror like hardware I had a hard time giving it any heavy use. The $65 price tag didn't help much either.

This $25 Benchmade is perfect for those hard use jobs that I never got done with my Walker.
 
Crompal, great reply.

Let me pick your brain if I may.

What's the reason only Spyderco uses "VG-10" and why is it one of the very few knife steels with cobalt (radioactive?) in it? There may be other mass producers using VG-10 but I'm not aware of them. Is Cobalt in the alloy for increased Rockwell C hardness, ease of manufacture, or something else?

http://spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=3
 
I am not sure but I would ask Sal. It could be contractual with his sourcing I really don't know

RTB
 
I do believe more companies use VG-10. I'm 99% sure Benchmade offers it on some of their nicer folders (The 710 and 705 maybe?).

I've got a VG-10 blade from Spyderco and like it very much.
 
Crompal: I really enjoy your posts!! You are so knowledgable. And you make it ieasy to understand with out getting into technoease. THANK YOU!!
 
mouse! Just picked one up and is it ever so nice!! I Also got one in G10 and the the other in CF both with an S30V blade.You know, the Japan made frn handle with the 440C blade is much nicer finished! No sharp edges while the USA(?) made G10 and CF does not feel as refined and they are more than twice the price. I will be edcing the Japan made one, though.Hope the 440C will back me up.
 
I want to thank the guys in this post for making me decide on the 440C Wegner. Glad I got it!!:thumbup:
 
I'm not Crompal but:

DGG said:
What's the reason only Spyderco uses "VG-10"
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They aren't the only one. Al Mar, Kershaw, Fallkniven all use it. It's a Japanese steel so you'll see it in Japanese-made knives. I also see some Japanese kitchen knives with what the makers call "molybdenum and vanadium steel" or something along those lines. This could very well be VG-10.

DGG said:
and why is it one of the very few knife steels with cobalt (radioactive?) in it? There may be other mass producers using VG-10 but I'm not aware of them. Is Cobalt in the alloy for increased Rockwell C hardness, ease of manufacture, or something else?
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I don't know the reason for using it, but it is NOT radioactive. Manmade radioactive isotopes exist though.
 
Cobalt is added to steels to offer improved red hardness usually in high speed cutting tools or tooling materials intended to be exposed to high heat like a forging die. In terms of a knife steel that is used at room temperature the addition of Co seems like an expensive change of dubious value. I have always wondered about the addition in VG 10. My guess is the addition was made for the steels use in a non knife application and it just so happens that it makes a good blade and is available to the knife making companies in Japan.
I do not believe the addition of Co has an affect one way or the other on its use as a knife blade Carbon and Chromium will control that.
 
I believe that I read that cobalt was added to VG-10 to allow a reduction in chromium while still maintaining high corrosion resistance. VG-10 has 14.5% to 15.5% chrome while 440C has 16% to 18%. In general high carbon stainless requires a high chrome content to preserve corrosion resistance. High chrome content does not make for the best edges.
 
I am currently doing a test on a Mini Pika. It has impressed me so far and sharpened on an Edge Pro to #1000 I cant see how anyone can complain about it.
 
Not to hijack the thread, but I used to think that SAK has poor steel, less than my 440C balisongs. But I found they are truly great slicer for daily use (envelope, fruits, etc.) in urban environment.

So, TFin04, the choice of steel (as long as not pot steel that can't get sharp anyway) is not very relevant for your usage. The blade geometry is ..
 
Jeff Clark said:
I believe that I read that cobalt was added to VG-10 to allow a reduction in chromium while still maintaining high corrosion resistance. VG-10 has 14.5% to 15.5% chrome while 440C has 16% to 18%. In general high carbon stainless requires a high chrome content to preserve corrosion resistance. High chrome content does not make for the best edges.
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Cobalt and Chromium do completely different things in Steel. Cr is critical in forming the passive oxide film that make stainless steel stainless. Cobalt has no affect on this at least none that has been reported in literature. Cr also forms carbides which can affect the amount of Cr available to form the passive oxide film. Cobalt does not form carbides. Cr is a ferrite former and will condtribute to the phase balance equations. Co doess not contribute significantly to the phase balance equation and if anything would be seen as an austenite stabilizer. The only affect I can see would be reducing the Fe content and thereby increasing the Cr/Fe ratio that may have a small affect on the passive oxide film formation but the affect would be very slight given the small Co content.

I still believe the element was added for a non knife related property for which the alloy was designed.

RTB
 
RTB, thanks for your insight.

Bohler N690 also contains cobalt. Bohler says that it is optimized for cutting tools with a hardness in the 58-60 RC range. That sounds more like knives than say a lathe cutting tool. The features that they list for the alloy are:
"good wear resistance, good corrosion resistance, best dimensional stability during heat treatment".
RTB, would you think that the cobalt adds to the dimensional stability? That would allow a maker to machine or grind to a thinner blade profile before hardening. It might save production costs.
 
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