440C resurgence?!?!

Well, I'm not going to say 440C is crap, but I will say that it, and ATS-34, are the two most frustrating blade-steels that I have ever used and sharpened.

Maybe it's the heat-treating (?) but 440C seems to be very inconsistant and its performance varies widely depending on the maker.

I have a Spyderco Meerkat with 440C and it is just OKAY.
I also have a Benchmade 551 with 440C and it performs way beyond my expectations.
And I have a Boker titanium lock-back with 440C and I can't get a decent edge on it to save my life.

I've had similar problems with ATS-34.

I've never had any problems with S30V or VG-10 regardless of the maker.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Allen.
 
I just find it funny that it's still widely used in Europe :rolleyes: I kinda prefer it if I can get good 440C.
 
440-C is a good knife steel like many others. What is important is how the knife fits your hand and does the work you intend for it. Too much emphasis is sometimes placed on the steel type and not enough on the ergonomics of the whole knife.

Here is a "techy" link about knife steels. If you page down half way you will find the section on 440 steels. There are some huge differences it seems between A-B-C with C being far and away the most highly regarded.

http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html


Lot of knife users don't realize that there is 440 steel and then there is 440 STEEL!

The SOG Seal is 440-A. The Randalls use 440-B.
 
Is there one single knife, relatively inexpensive, that different variations use 440-C, VG-10, and S30V? for some reason, the spyderco native comes to mind. I would like to get 3 of the EXACT SAME knives, except for the blade steel, and test them out, side by side.
 
from what ive heard 440c chips quite easily and its supposedly not as pure as european and japanese steel (atleast it was not as pure, dont know if things have changed, but i kinda doubt it because its still considered just a standard/medium quality SS and it works fine as it is, if you need pure go powder)
 
Is it possible that todays 440c is different, perhaps better than maybe 10-15 years ago? I've noticed 440s on the rise again also, though, what I remember about using 440c was it would dull faster and chip easier than s30v. Cutting a twist tie would chip the edge as I recall. My s30v blades have only chipped when coming into contact with an extremely hard surface, like ceramic tiles, or metals - was cutting some cardboard on the downward slice and tapped the tile - only time I've seen this.
 
A recent blade magazine had an article by Scott Devanna on stainless steels, and had a chart comparing corrosion resistance, toughness, and wear resistance of just about every stainless steel we use in knives. Of course, wear resistance does not = edge retention, but it can give you some inkling of an idea. Also, neither the chart or the article said anything about ease of sharpening, but Crucible tends to try to ignore that issue. It's the closest thing to a comprehensive chart we've ever had.
 
Maker always matters and perhaps matters the most.

That said, I've had some good 440C. I think its "resurgence" has as much to do with its lower price compared to higher grade steels, but still good performance.

Phil
 
I'm pretty sure that A. G. Russell sells their Deer Hunter and Bird and Trout knives in a variety of steels. Same grinds, handle, etc. Only they make them with AUS-8 (VERY similar to 440C) VG-10, and D2. Not quite apples to oranges, but it should give you a good starting point to evaluate the steels.

Here's a link to the page selling them. For a grand total of about $135, you could get all three in the Bird and Trout model.

http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_maker/a_through_d/a_g_russell_knives/straight_knives/a_g_russell_bird_trout_with_vg10_blade.html

Daniel
 
Daniel Dorn said:
Only they make them with AUS-8 (VERY similar to 440C)
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AUS-8 is not VERY similar to 440C. Aus-8 is tougher but has less carbide volume, producing less wear resistance. The carbides are probably also smaller in general. AUS-8 is also mass produced by random companies, and has huge ranges for allowable percentages of alloy, quality is never for sure, and I doubt they use the highest quality of manufature.
 
Slatts said:
fed, I think we hunt in the same territory in SoTex. I have a BM Grip with 440 C and am pretty dissapointed in it's edge holding abilities. Every time I put it against anything hard, the blade chips a bit. My favorite skinning knife is my Spyderco Moran with VG-10. I gutted 7 deer with it one day this season and it held an incredible edge. Just a few strokes on the sharpmaker yesterday has it primed for this weekend's hog hunt.
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i got a Entrek Jag today, and i have done some tests to it... edge flex on brass rod, punching holes in sheet steel... guess what? it didn't chip but it did dull a little, so i put it on my King 1200 water stone and it's shaving sharp again. i think this is going to be my new favorite steel over my nim 154cm.:)
 
I've got no real issues with any particular steel.

The only thing I've observed is that once a steel moves out of the premium range and into the "everybody has it" stage, the heat treat issue starts to become significant. A lot of variation, often resulting in sub-par performance.

440C's reputation fell due to that.
 
J.Davey said:
Oh yeah, and thanks to TK for being all over the 'new super steel: S30V' in the new issue; sad. I've always shown them respect, but whoever wrote that article is a hack (and you all know it). I expect more from the mag I've been buying since I was 16 (32, now).
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Which mag is that? I thought TK meant Tactical Knives, but I know for sure that I didn't buy the first issue (Vallotton made Applegate/Fairbairn folder on the cover) 16 years ago.
 
440C is a great steel when done right. If you have ever had a Kit Carson 440C knife you'd see what I mean. Awesome. Same with ICC knives in 440C.

It is all in who makes it rather than what the steel is. I would rather have a 440A knife made by a great knifemaker than an S30V unknown or suspect knife. Design and HT are so important and make the knife.

The regular makers in our frums, I would trust to make an incredible blade out of any steel. They know what they are doing. Rinaldi/Carson/Lightfoot etc, could probably make 420J2 behave better than some better steels just because they know what it takes to get a steel to work for them.
 
In Knives' 87 (pages 142 to 144) annual ed. by Ken Warner then, knifemaker Jim Sornberger wrote an article entitled ' A few kind words about 440c steel ' . He said high tech heat treating and slow buffing were the secrets , no glamour but 'it will hold a good worknig edge, remain ductile and tough at high hardness levels ; and its corrosion resistance is excellent'.

Please take 5 , pick up Knives'87 and have fun :)

ELDE
 
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