440C vs. 1080 for edge holding

T

TXChinook

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Dec 22, 2012
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This question has almost certainly come up here before but my search did not find it... I'm choosing between two knives for use in dealing with deer and elk and am interested in which is more likely to hold an edge for this type work. Both knives are from well-known custom makers and so both would have had their respective steels treated in the best possible ways. The two steels are 1080 and 440C.

I understand these steels are totally different. But is one better at holding an edge? What about the ability to sharpen? Thanks
 
440C will hold an edge longer than any 1000 series carbon steel, including 1080.
 
The 1000 series carbon steels will sharpen up easier then 440c, and will be tougher as well.
 
440C will hold an edge longer than any 1000 series carbon steel, including 1080.
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The 1000 series carbon steels will sharpen up easier then 440c, and will be tougher as well.
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Oh my... surely this can't be like asking two engineers for an opinion and getting 4 answers. Do I need to make this a poll question...??
 
Seems pretty straight forward - (with the same edge geometry) 440c will hold an edge longer 1080 will be easier to sharpen...
 
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Toughness refers to the strength of the blade, not it's ability to hold an edge. While 440c holds a edge longer gine was just pointing out that 1080 surpasses it in other areas.
 
TXChinook said:
Oh my... surely this can't be like asking two engineers for an opinion and getting 4 answers. Do I need to make this a poll question...??
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Those two statements are not contradicting.

An increase in hardness translates to:
- An increase in edge retention
- An increase in sharpening time
- A decrease in toughness
 
TXChinook said:
Oh my... surely this can't be like asking two engineers for an opinion and getting 4 answers. Do I need to make this a poll question...??
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To the best of my knowledge, only one of the answers was from an engineer. And as some of the other fellas have stated, our answers were not actually in conflict. However, gine did not address the specific question you asked.

You asked specifically about edge holding, so that was the question I answered.
 
Thanks guys,

If 440C is said to have greater edge retention, is harder to sharpen and has less toughness than 1080; and if heat treatments are a factor in this result; are we assuming that 440C is subjected to more heat treatments than 1080?. Is it possible for one smith to perform less heat treating on his 440C and another to perform more heat treating on his 1080 such that the 1080 has the greater edge retention of the two?

I'm trying to get a feel why one smith would work almost exclusively with 440C while another would opt mostly for 1080.
 
Depends on the type of knife. It's purpose. A "survival" or hard use knife benefits from a tougher alloy. A hunting knife benefits from superior edge retention.

For 440C to have less edge retention than 1080, the heat treat of the 440C would have to be seriously wrong.
 
When it comes to sharpening, I don't think you would see a significant enough difference between 440c and 1080 to even consider "difficulty of sharpening" as an issue. I think if a person had any difficulty sharpening 440c that they would likely have difficulty sharpening ANY steel.

If you are considering specific knives or knives from particular makers, go ahead and name them, it's not against the rules. There might be people here who have experience with those knives or knives from those makers who could tell you how those knives perform.
 
Would it be fair to say that heat treating increases rockwell hardness and decreases toughness (akin to making it more brittle)? So the 1080 might be preferred where you have to "pry boards apart" but 440C might be preferred for my application of skinning a deer?

Is the rockwell hardness of 440C always greater than that of 1080, regardless of how the two are heat treated?

If you are considering specific knives or knives from particular makers, go ahead and name them, it's not against the rules. There might be people here who have experience with those knives or knives from those makers who could tell you how those knives perform.
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The 440C knife is by Z McCarty and the 1080 is by Bill Buxton.
 
There are much better Stainless Steel for your skinner than 440C. 440 C is a relatively inexpensive stainless which is easy to work and was one of the original SSs. Suggest you look at S35VN or M390, both are much better.
 
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the 1080 might be preferred where you have to "pry boards apart" but 440C might be preferred for my application of skinning a deer?
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Yes.

s the rockwell hardness of 440C always greater than that of 1080, regardless of how the two are heat treated?
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No

The reason 440C has better edge retention is that it contains carbides. These are harder than steel and increase the wear resistance. Thus, 440C at a Rockwell of 58HRC will have better edge retention than 1080 at a Rockwell of 60HRC.

A good simile is that 440C is like concrete, while 1080 is like cement. The chunks in concrete give it better wear resistance, but cement is actually tougher.
 
There are much better Stainless Steel for your skinner than 440C
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Great! This the type information I was looking for. Except in this specific case, I already have the two knives and want to gift one to a family member. I was wondering if I should keep the one with 440C or the one with 1080 (for my deer gutting/skinning needs).

In looking at the McCarty, the width of the blade tapers to a max thickness of 5/32" at the hilt and then tapers back to 3/32 at the end of the handle (the handle is very nice stag). The Buxton is equally attractive with desert ironwood handles and the blade shows a distinctive temper line. The McCarty is definitely the heavier of the two but the blade of the Buxton is presently the sharper of the two. Neither have been sharpened (to my knowledge) since being first sold.

I like the heft and feel of the McCarty but I honestly feel like the blade on the Buxton is better. And after all, isn't the blade is the most important part of a knife?
 
A good simile is that 440C is like concrete, while 1080 is like cement. The chunks in concrete give it better wear resistance, but cement is actually tougher.
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I like that analogy. Of course, neither concrete nor cement are tough without reinforcing steel, but that's another matter altogether :-)
 
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