440c

upnorth

upnorth

Joined
Nov 25, 2006
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I have been all over the map with my blade steel purchases. 1050, 1075, Aus8A, 1095, D-2, VG10, s30v etc. In my reading travels I keep seeing 440c popping up as an old favorite steel for some folks. Is 440c on the back burner today simply because the powdered or ''super'' steels are so readily available and superior in edge retention? I am finding that the higher up the cutting edge longevity scale I go, the more difficult or time consuming the sharpening process is at times. Was/is 440c a comfortable point between performance and maintenance ?
 
I have some old Buck knives in 440C and I really like them. They are not hard to sharpen on modern equipment, take a very nice edge and hold it pretty well. Not as well as new super steels, but well enough. I have many different steels, some super, some not, the 440C from Buck is very nice. I still carry these at times and I'm still very happy with their performance. Find one with a good heat treat and see what you think. That's a big part of the fun of the hobby.
Bob
 
I like 440c on Hunter Pro. Sharpens easy on diamonds and holds the edge sharp long time. From what I understood is not easy to harden it correctly though.
 
I have some Gerber Kitchen knives made out of 440c. Good kitchen knives. I don't find them difficult to sharpen. Definitely takes a little more time and effort than some of the other carbon steel knives.

I did buy them before they got bought out and went down hill.

Ric
 
In my reading travels I keep seeing 440c popping up as an old favorite steel for some folks. Is 440c on the back burner today simply because the powdered or ''super'' steels are so readily available and superior in edge retention?
Click to expand...

440C does make many knife users and makers happy. It is pretty wear resistant and for some difficult to re profile or reset edges because of it. I don't care for it not because of any lack of wear resistance but because for the same or more wear resistance other steels have surpassed it with better grain structures giving better edge stability and toughness. Both VG10 and 154cm/ATS 34 ( not powder steels) have slightly better wear resistance but it's the nicer edges with greater strength and stability that is important to me. I don't equate greater abrasive wear with better steels as some of my favorites ( 1095, O-1, 52100) have less wear resistance. Going up to powder steels CPM 154 or RWL 34 make these steels even better grain therefore strength wise for not really much higher costs. Going further in the high carbide-greater abrasive wear resistance then brings us to S30V-on up to S90V and S110V, etc. Much higher wear resistance with toughness still a little better than 440C.

It's the better combination of attributes not higher wear resistance that makes me prefer these other steels in what I consider the same category . Why wouldn't I prefer VG10 or 154cm over 440C when they are available? That isn't to say that 440C is unacceptable or doesn't make a good knife. It has made good knives ( and bad ones probably) longer than I've been alive and I'm 55. I just prefer some others when available. It's long history as a premium steel makes it a favorite of a lot of people. I still have a few 440C knives but they don't get much use anymore.

In all honesty I prefer non stainless steels usually which may explain my preference for higher edge stability steels.

Joe
 
In a nutshell, yes, 440c is a good balance between between edge holding, corrosion resistance, toughness, and ease of sharpening, and yes, it has lost a lot of popularity in the shadow of newer, fancier alloys, as well as lower grade cheaper Chinese productions which tend to prefer 7crXYZ or 8crXYZ variety steels.

Is it still a quality blend, absolutely, when process properly from a reputable source it makes a fine blade.

Performance wise, a good batch well manufactured 440c tends to fall a good step above the 8cr13mov you see in many budget friendly Chinese production knives, (more akin to 9cr18mo), and even aus8 (which is almost identical to 8cr13mov on paper), but a step below the 154cm you see in the beginnings of many higher end production offerings, which while similar in carbon content and lower in chromium includes tungsten, vanadium, and a lot more molybednum.

A major downside is, because most major manufacturers have steered away from using it; opting for either higher end or lower end offerings: finding a good and reputable sourced/produced 440c blade can sonetimes be tricky.
 
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When done correctly, 440C is a very good steel.
Boker does it just right.
Good thread.
rolf
 
440c is a great if the price is right and or you really dig the design. I have Knives of Alaska fillet knife in 440c and a old buck I suspect is 440c also. Its great. But if I was buying a new knife and you layed Two similar knives in front of me, one in 440c and one in I dunno cpm 154 (or other new cool steel) I'd buy the latter, if price was comparable. 440c is quality steel, metallurgy has since gotten better than the 440 series stuff though. 420hc is kinda same thing for me, if price is right its a great knife. I will always have a buck woodsman in my rotation. can't beat them for the price.
 
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440C is just fine, if the maker does a good heat treat. In my experience, CPM154-CM sharpens a little better, but that's relative, because 440C still sharpens great. But they're pretty close in terms of performance. Here's a pretty good write-up on 440C from a guy who use(es/ed?) it to make blades for some guys who need serious gear ;) :

http://www.jayfisher.com/440C_Love_Hate.htm
 
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Great steel. If you like pretty knives, it takes a high polish. I bought a custom in it last year.

Benchmade does an excellent job with 440c as well. I have had my my BM31 bali for a long time, it gets used hard, and it only needs touchups, never chipped or rolled

A good design in 440C is better than a mediocre design in the current "wonder steel." Plus 440C knives are always a little or a lot cheaper, you have to pay for hype :). The only "wonder steel" I would pay extra for is William & Henry's ZDP. It truly is a class above.
 
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DeadboxHero said:
what do you sharpen with? what edge finish?
Click to expand...

I started with a Lansky kit then a Sharpmaker. I would consider myself a moderate/working edge sharpener. Knives and axes are an offshoot of my outdoor interests and not really a primary focus as for some folks. But I seem to be accumulating a ridiculous pile of toys, lol.
 
Derzelas said:
I like 440c on Hunter Pro. Sharpens easy on diamonds and holds the edge sharp long time. From what I understood is not easy to harden it correctly though.
Click to expand...

I got some diamond ?, or whatever they are made of, rods for my Sharpmaker, and I haven't used them yet.
 
The Mastiff said:
440C does make many knife users and makers happy. It is pretty wear resistant and for some difficult to re profile or reset edges because of it. I don't care for it not because of any lack of wear resistance but because for the same or more wear resistance other steels have surpassed it with better grain structures giving better edge stability and toughness. Both VG10 and 154cm/ATS 34 ( not powder steels) have slightly better wear resistance but it's the nicer edges with greater strength and stability that is important to me. I don't equate greater abrasive wear with better steels as some of my favorites ( 1095, O-1, 52100) have less wear resistance. Going up to powder steels CPM 154 or RWL 34 make these steels even better grain therefore strength wise for not really much higher costs. Going further in the high carbide-greater abrasive wear resistance then brings us to S30V-on up to S90V and S110V, etc. Much higher wear resistance with toughness still a little better than 440C.

It's the better combination of attributes not higher wear resistance that makes me prefer these other steels in what I consider the same category . Why wouldn't I prefer VG10 or 154cm over 440C when they are available? That isn't to say that 440C is unacceptable or doesn't make a good knife. It has made good knives ( and bad ones probably) longer than I've been alive and I'm 55. I just prefer some others when available. It's long history as a premium steel makes it a favorite of a lot of people. I still have a few 440C knives but they don't get much use anymore.

In all honesty I prefer non stainless steels usually which may explain my preference for higher edge stability steels.

Joe
Click to expand...

Thanks for the time and effort. In the last year or so I have been thinking a little more about selling/giving away a lot of my redundant tools/toys, and focusing on a smaller core of users. I now seem to be focusing on finding steel attributes that fit my usage patterns.
 
strategy9 said:
In a nutshell, yes, 440c is a good balance between between edge holding, corrosion resistance, toughness, and ease of sharpening, and yes, it has lost a lot of popularity in the shadow of newer, fancier alloys, as well as lower grade cheaper Chinese productions which tend to prefer 7crXYZ or 8crXYZ variety steels.

Is it still a quality blend, absolutely, when process properly from a reputable source it makes a fine blade.

Performance wise, a good batch well manufactured 440c tends to fall a good step above the 8cr13mov you see in many budget friendly Chinese production knives, (more akin to 9cr18mo), and even aus8 (which is almost identical to 8cr13mov on paper), but a step below the 154cm you see in the beginnings of many higher end production offerings, which while similar in carbon content and lower in chromium includes tungsten, vanadium, and a lot more molybednum.

A major downside is, because most major manufacturers have steered away from using it; opting for either higher end or lower end offerings: finding a good and reputable sourced/produced 440c blade can sonetimes be tricky.
Click to expand...

Very interesting post, thank you.
 
lobo9er said:
440c is a great if the price is right and or you really dig the design. I have Knives of Alaska fillet knife in 440c and a old buck I suspect is 440c also. Its great. But if I was buying a new knife and you layed Two similar knives in front of me, one in 440c and one in I dunno cpm 154 (or other new cool steel) I'd buy the latter, if price was comparable. 440c is quality steel, metallurgy has since gotten better than the 440 series stuff though. 420hc is kinda same thing for me, if price is right its a great knife. I will always have a buck woodsman in my rotation. can't beat them for the price.
Click to expand...

I remember seeing some Knives of Alaska pieces on my preferred vendors site a few years back. Maybe it was a test run, never saw them again.
 
traumkommode said:
440C is just fine, if the maker does a good heat treat. In my experience, CPM154-CM sharpens a little better, but that's relative, because 440C still sharpens great. But they're pretty close in terms of performance. Here's a pretty good write-up on 440C from a guy who use(es/ed?) it to make blades for some guys who need serious gear ;) :

http://www.jayfisher.com/440C_Love_Hate.htm
Click to expand...

Will read later, thanks. I never really had a 440C focus but it kept popping up with some regularity when doing alternate searches, so I was curious.
 
brownshoe said:
Great steel. If you like pretty knives, it takes a high polish. I bought a custom in it last year.

Benchmade does an excellent job with 440c as well. I have had my my BM31 bali for a long time, it gets used hard, and it only needs touchups, never chipped or rolled

A good design in 440C is better than a mediocre design in the current "wonder steel." Plus 440C knives are always a little or a lot cheaper, you have to pay for hype :). The only "wonder steel" I would pay extra for is William & Henry's ZDP. It truly is a class above.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
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