440c

T

Tracker81

Banned
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Messages
135
I was hoping you guys might be able to give me some info from your own personal experiences with this type of steel. How does it rate for cutting and edge retention and what would you say are its weak and strong points.

Furthermore, how does it compare to other steels like ATS-34, 154CM, and AUS-8? I guess I'm a little confused on steel quality in blades, in that I've seen some expensive customs using 440c (which I used to think was a lower quality steel) and I've seen some cheap productions using AUS-8 (which I believed was premium steel).

Any info would be really appreciated! :D
 
It's all in the heat treat. Done right, 440C is a very good steel, but the majority of knives made with it aren't done right, and are pretty crappy.

A lot of junky knives use it, because it's cheap, very corrosion resistant, can be polished to a mirror-like finish easily, and takes a very sharp edge. Unfortunately these junky knives arent heat treated well, so they don't hold an edge worth a crap; AUS-6 or even AUS-4 would be an improvement.

But some knifemakers do it right. Benchmade uses 440C on their excellent -- and very popular -- Griptilian line, as well as the late, great 805 TSEK. I have both, and the way Benchmade heat treats their blades, they hold an edge almost as well as AUS-8 or 154CM IMHO.
 
Here is some info. 440-C is great steel, stainless. It has more carbon than 154CM steel and slightly less than the newer S30V. It has more chromium than both 154CM and the new S30V steel.

The problem is in its confusing name. The name needs to be changed to S440-C (for Super 440-C) so as not to confuse it with the many other 440 steels being sold. Many will say 440C is cr*p but they really are talking about 440A which is much different, having about half the carbon and not holding anywhere near the edge that 440C does.

Here is a link to some good, little techy though, information about knife steels.

http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html

Just page down to the 440 section and you will see lots of good info.
 
Gryffin said:
But some knifemakers do it right. Benchmade uses 440C on their excellent -- and very popular -- Griptilian line, as well as the late, great 805 TSEK. I have both, and the way Benchmade heat treats their blades, they hold an edge almost as well as AUS-8 or 154CM IMHO.
Click to expand...

I would say better as AUS-8 (at least AUS-8 from Benchmade) and almost as well as 154CM (also from Benchmade ;) ).

I own a Griptilian and a TSEK too, and Pika - they do very well.
I would say 154CM or ATS34 (I mean still the steels from Benchmade) show a little better edge retention and the edge cuts maybe more aggresive.

Personal experiences?

All three - Griptilian, TSEK, Pika - take very nice edge and hold it well.
Sharpening is very easy, much easier that 154CM/ATS34.
 
440c is a great steel, not only does it hold an edge, its corrosion resistance
is exceptional, and it takes a beautiful finish. Dont use a lot of it ,because
people are looking for the latest greatest super steel, of the knives We have made from it, their have been no complaints.
 
Tracker81,
would you mind trying the search function? This subject has been beaten to death already.
 
The search function will give you a lot more information than a single thread will ever do, especially on something so common. But in short, personally, I see 440c as a very solid baseline in the "good bladesteel" territory. There are some steels that I would prefer, there are others that I would rather avoid that are acceptable to others. But with 440c I think everybody agrees, that while it is not the latest and greatest, it is nothing to complain about.
 
DGG, the name doesn't have to be changed at all ! There is 440A, 440B ,and 440C ,different only in carbon content.If a knife is advertized as just 440 , beware , it's probably the A or B type. 440C ,if heat treated properly ,makes a fine blade.
 
It is an all round quality steel if properly heat treated and cryo treated.

My first design was a moose knife that will hold an edge long enough to dress, skin and quarter a moose without having to be resharpened. Some people have done two or more moose before sharpening.

It may not be the greatest but after I have finished with my moose I am ready to go back to camp, somebody else can borrow my knife if they want to finish their moose.

Are there better steels.......of course! Are they more expensive....you bet!
 
Tracker81, dont worry about obnoxious replies that only say "use the search function".

Hey, opinions change and sometimes if you do ask a question that has been asked before, you might get different answers. I used to not be to fond of 440C, but since I have two customs using it and have worked with them, my opinion has changed. Certainly you can use the search for some additional reading though. Dont shy away from asking a question though.

If we all depended on search and never asked posted similar topics more than once, we could probably cut new threads by 90%...BORING.
 
Quiet Storm said:
Tracker81,
would you mind trying the search function? This subject has been beaten to death already.
Click to expand...

Personally I enjoy seeing "subjects that have been beaten to death" resurface. It provides interesting new reading and rethinking on subjects I'd not pondered recently; and it provides a source of new input and insights on "old" subjects. Learning is a continous process. We shouldn't depend solely on what's gone before.
 
mete said:
DGG, the name doesn't have to be changed at all ! There is 440A, 440B ,and 440C ,different only in carbon content.If a knife is advertized as just 440 , beware , it's probably the A or B type. 440C ,if heat treated properly ,makes a fine blade.
Click to expand...

You know that and I know that. But, many newbies get very confused by the term.

Too many negative comments are batted about regarding 440 steel. 440C gets tarred and feathered because of it's name.
 
Gryffin said:
A lot of junky knives use it, because it's cheap, very corrosion resistant, can be polished to a mirror-like finish easily, and takes a very sharp edge. Unfortunately these junky knives arent heat treated well, so they don't hold an edge worth a crap; AUS-6 or even AUS-4 would be an improvement.
Click to expand...

I think you're confused, It ain't so cheap actually, I was just over at the Admiral steel website and 440c is about 15% more expensive than ATS-34.it's only slightly less expensive than 154CM. 440C has a higher Chromium content, (17%) so it is very wear resistant, grinding and polishing are more difficult than many other stainless steels. Aus-4 is the same steel as 420-hc which is garbage

When a manufacturer makes the decision to use a steel with a higher carbon content and chromium content like 440C ATS34 or 154CM over a steel like AUS6 or AUS8 they are making a decision to make a higher performance blade. The steels are more expensive bit it's more than that. Because of the higher carbon and chromium every opperation down stream is more expensive. Blanking is more expensive because you get fewer blanks between die maintenence. all the grinding and polishing processes take more time and use more abrasive.
 
Considering your name, I'll take your word for it! ;)

I think you're right, I was making the mistake of lumping all the 440's together. As pointed out earlier, the real junkers use 440A, not 440C. I was thinking of all the Pakistani and Chinese crap that's just marked "440" if it's marked at all...
 
I am in the very early stages of a knife making career and use 440C for my steel. It gets the job done at an economical price. So far, the only disadvantage I can see with 440C is that it isn't the latest and greatest steel. That is what is killing it. ATS34 and 154CM were at the top just a few short years ago and now you can see in some posts that people are begininng to get the ho hum attitude about them that they have about 440C.

As has been pointed out, any steel is only as good as it's heat treat and also, as good as the grind used for the knife. A poorly ground blade or the wrong grind for the job can not be cured by superior steel or superior heat treat. There is a lot that goes into a truly great knife.

Also, don't jump on him about doing a search. Sometimes it doesn't work. I am a Gold Member and it hasn't worked for me many times. That may not be the case here, but one should never assume.
 
I've always liked 440C and consider it a premium knife steel. As I recall 154CM is an enhanced 440C with more Chromium I believe. (going from memory there so don't hold me to just that it may be more elements too.)

154CM has a higher wear resistance than 440C or D2 for that matter so it should be a much better edge keeper. It looks like such a great steel on paper and I do have some blades in that steel I like but I've never been very satisfied with the edges I get on either 154CM or ATS34. They take a highly polished edge real well and seem to do better for push cuts to me than slicing cuts except for the combo edged models I have but that is just my own experience with those steels.
 
I think 440C has 3% mor Chr, but no Molyb in it is the difference if any other then treatment afterwards.

Oh an .15% more carbon then the 154 (Edited.)
Correct me as needed :D

WR
 
I've been pretty busy with school, work and an angry girlfriend and so I apologize for getting back to this topic after a bit of a delay.

Thank you all very much for weighing in on this thread. I've had knives for years but my blade knowledge is pretty weak and its thanks to people like you that I'm able to learn something.

Thanks again for all the info and replies :)
 
Dirk said:
I am in the very early stages of a knife making career and use 440C for my steel. It gets the job done at an economical price. So far, the only disadvantage I can see with 440C is that it isn't the latest and greatest steel. That is what is killing it. ATS34 and 154CM were at the top just a few short years ago and now you can see in some posts that people are begininng to get the ho hum attitude about them that they have about 440C.

As has been pointed out, any steel is only as good as it's heat treat and also, as good as the grind used for the knife. A poorly ground blade or the wrong grind for the job can not be cured by superior steel or superior heat treat. There is a lot that goes into a truly great knife.

Also, don't jump on him about doing a search. Sometimes it doesn't work. I am a Gold Member and it hasn't worked for me many times. That may not be the case here, but one should never assume.
Click to expand...

Not a problem. Just stamp ZDP or 154CM on the blade and nobody will be any the wiser, hee hee! Or don't put anything and let the users imagination run wild!

I have knives that I will never know what steel they have. But they work good.
 
STR said:
I've always liked 440C and consider it a premium knife steel. As I recall 154CM is an enhanced 440C with more Chromium I believe. (going from memory there so don't hold me to just that it may be more elements too.)

154CM has a higher wear resistance than 440C or D2 for that matter so it should be a much better edge keeper. It looks like such a great steel on paper and I do have some blades in that steel I like but I've never been very satisfied with the edges I get on either 154CM or ATS34. They take a highly polished edge real well and seem to do better for push cuts to me than slicing cuts except for the combo edged models I have but that is just my own experience with those steels.
Click to expand...

No 440C has more chromium. About 17% compared with 14% for 154CM.

See this link and you will find tables comparing all the various types of knife steels. Save it to you favorites.

http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top