440V the best? Am I crazy

M

MONKEYAZZ

Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
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In the last year I have bought about 5 knives of different materials ie 154cm,S30V,Aus8 and D2. Now prior to these purchases I went about 10 years without a Knife purchase.My everyday carry has been my 440v Military, Spyderco Endura, and an old benchmade. Now my favorite is hands down the Military and I like to keep it razor sharp. I sharpen it probally once a month. Now with my new knives ie Yojimbo or Resistor I find I sharpen them just as often and they are harder to get scary sharp. I think I bought into the hype that these new steels were really going to blow me away. But they have not lived up to the
hype. Is this a marketing ploy were in a lab they outperform because I sure have not seen it. I am a fairly heavy user but I treat my knives nice ie I wouldnt use the tip as a screw driver or cut some wire. Maybe this is were I would see the difference?
Anyway 440V great steel my favorite dont believe the hype!
P.S I would like to try the BG42 military maybe my wife wouldnt notice;)
 
Only S30V is a "newer" steel than 440V, in regards to getting sharp, I would bet it is more to due with geometry than steel based on your results.

-Cliff
 
I always profile my pocket knives with the same angle on my Gatco sharpner. So they are all the same.I cant remeber off the top but I believe it is 19 deg?
 
I find AUS 8 dulls very quickly but it takes only a few passes on a stone to bring it back to razor edge.

This might sound crazy but I like it better than some of those steels you mentioned. I have yet to try S30V.

I don't mind sharpening. In fact I like it. Sharpening makes me connect to my knife in a different way, like I know the feel better and I know it is sharp.
Confidence in my tool!
 
I have three knives in 440V:- A Sean Williams forged, fixed blade which has seen many a hunting trip and a Spyderco Military, and a Kershaw folder with Wharncliffe style blade. All have been terrific performers. They take a sharp edge, hold it a long time and have no chipping problems.

Among the knives I own in S30V, some have given no trouble but others have massive chipping problems at the edge. When S30V first came out I thought it was the cat's meow because of industry hype. Disillusionment set in shortly after and I now look at S30V with a jaundiced eye.

Although my experience alone is anecdotal, I have read much about chipping problems of S30V on these forums.
 
You have a Sean Williams!!!!!

I have always wanted one of his knives, I think it is called the panama, a 3-4utility type really comfortable looking handles.

I am envious
 
Chrisaloia: Mine has a six inch blade with true zero edge geometry. The handle is uniquely suited to retaining a grip and very comfortable in use but too smooth IMO.

Do you regularly check the For Sale forums?
 
With S30V, I find it much more difficult to get a really sharp edge. I can get it sharp enough to shave real smoothly and zip through foods, but steels like 1095, AUS8, Byrd's Steel, SAK Steel and the 440 series I can get to a much sharper edge in far less time than it takes to get the S30V to so so sharp. Most the knives in the latter steels I mentioned I can just steel on some random piece of metal I find then strop on cardboard or my pants leg and that's all they take. Re-sharpening often isn't a problem when it's that easy and requires no specialized tools.
 
cpm 440v steel is made with the exact same technology that is used to make the newer cpm steals, it is just a different formula higher carbon than most, more brutal than most, and more wear resistant almost all of them. Probably rusts fairly easily to. I have heard a bit lately about really hard steal specifically zdp 189 being easy to touch up to a touch sharp edge. this is possibly due to the negligible a burr that is formed doing sharpening of these hardened steels. If you don't have a problem with the edge shipping, with the type of work he used your knife for then CPM 440v may well be the ideal steel for you.

modern metallurgy techniques have produced some great products. But there are some older traditional steals, they can with proper heat treatments, can have some very desirable properties. Some of the old steel chemistries are very good specifically and I am not an expert on this o-1and 52100 form structures and carbides when properly manufactured, that make them very desirable

. The advantage of crucibles cpm technology seems to be twofold one you can get higher carbon contents than traditionally available and two you can get a more uniform mix of elements in your steel structure. For example cpm 0-1 would be superior to traditional 0-1 given the same heat treatment.
 
Before I lost it:( , I had a Native in 440V. I can only claim good experiences with the steel. It held an edge very well, and wasn't too hard to touch up. I didn't dull it to the point of reprofiling, though. As far as stain resistance, I remember it holding up as well as my S30V knives, so this isn't really an issue.

Don't be afraid to give 440V a try!
 
The only 440V blade I have is a Spyderco Lil' Temp I picked up used, with a somewhat dull and chipped edge.
It really didn't take long to put a new profile on it with my DMT coarse bench hone, and the edge has held up very well. I had heard horror stories about sharpening 440V, but I had no trouble.

I seem to recall seeing a thread somewhere where Sal Glesser said 440V was in the same group as ZDP-189 and BG-42 for edge holding in his tests. It's good stuff. :thumbup:
 
A druid said:
cpm 440v steel is made with the exact same technology that is used to make the newer cpm steals, it is just a different formula higher carbon than most, more brutal than most, and more wear resistant almost all of them. Probably rusts fairly easily to. I have heard a bit lately about really hard steal specifically zdp 189 being easy to touch up to a touch sharp edge.
Click to expand...

I've got a couple of knives in CPM 440V, including two Sypderco Natives (PE and SE) I used for several years as my main EDC knives. I used both of them pretty hard, and in my experience CPM 440V doesn' chip as easily as S30V. No real problems with rust, not even at the coast, but I tend to look after my knives. I actually prefer CPM 440V over S30V.

The main problem with CPM 440V is in my opinion that it usually isn't run very hard, so it's not that easy to sharpen. Burrs can be a real problem with that steel, although decent sharpening techniques (I prefer diamond hones for this kind steel) make life decidedly easier.

Also, because of the large carbides it doesn't take a fine edge. This steel works best with angles slightly above 15 degrees per side in my experience. It's basically similar in that respect to steels like D2: Doesn't get really sharp, but holds its mediocre sharpness for a long time, no matter what you do with the knife.

ZDP-189 is in my experience easier to sharpen than CPM 440V. It also takes a very nice edge, much better than either CPM 440V or S30V, and can be used with a much slimmer edge geometry. I use my ZDP-189 knives at angles of about 10 degrees per side, that makes a real difference in cutting ability. However, steels like VG-10 or AUS8 or 12C27 are even easier to sharpen and also take very nice edge. But they're nowhere near as wear resistent as ZDP-189.

Hans
 
I have a huge Bud Weston folder in 440V, which has held up very well. But i haven't used it very hard. I have a small Bailey neck knife in 440V which I took to ellesmere island ocean kayaking and beat the hell out of. The rust resistance wasn't as high as I'd hoped, but not bad. It was, however, quite difficult to sharpen.
I think it's a great steel.
 
Its funny because I think many of us knife guys go crazy for the newer super steels, but to tell you the truth its hard to tell the difference in what I use my knives for, whcih is usually light cuttign jobs...So even 440 for me is good enough, and dont mind sharpenign my knives either...I enjoy doign it as well, so even though Im alwasy considering gettign a new knife with better steel I dont really need it, and in many cases the extra cost is not worth it for me...I am more than happy with my spyderco knives sporting VG-10, and other knives commonly using ATS34 and 154cm...

If I used my knives alot more my opinion might change...but for now, I like almost every knife I encounter, besides the obvious ones...(flea market specials)
 
I don't see any improvements with the s30V over 440V in holding a razor edge I sharpen it just as much. And it is harder to get sharp. I don't use a diamond stone on any of my knives and don't see the need for them.Once my knives need a sharpening by my standards it is little effort to bring them back.
As for 440v having problems with burrs I have not seen this I just run it over a pigskin strop once I'm finished sharpening and voila scary sharp knife.
I think I use my knife allot and have got a pretty good handle on how each knife is performing and once again I don't see the upside.
 
Are you crazy? It doesn't sound like it. Given your knives, what you use them for, and the way you sharpen them, the newer "hyped" steels ain't all that. Everyone's mileage will vary. New technology being overhyped really comes as no suprise. We are not talking computing power or modem speeds here where out with the old in with the new is the norm. Mankind has been forging steel and experimenting with alloys and blade designs for thousands of years; it will be hard for something new to come along that represents a true radical advance as opposed to a different sort of tradeoff, i.e. better corrosion resistance but less edge holding or vice versa. Mainly the big advantages we have over the ancients seems to be consistency and economy of production.

Use your feelings, Luke!
 
MONKEYAZZ said:
I always profile my pocket knives with the same angle on my Gatco sharpner. So they are all the same.I cant remeber off the top but I believe it is 19 deg?
Click to expand...

Hey, if you find what works best for you, great. It's definitely the case that your particular method of sharpening, your particular usages, etc., can all combine to result in a different steel being better for you than for others. Here's another point of view to consider as you ponder all this. What's the main purpose of a knife? For me, I don't buy a knife for the purpose of having it hold an edge forever; rather, I buy it for the purpose of cutting things, and my top priority is that it be really good]/i] at cutting things. Yes, of course, I want it to be able to cut for a long time without needing resharpening, but the main goal is to cut really well. Generally speaking, the thinner the edge, the better it will cut -- provided, of course, the steel has the requisite properties to hold up that thinner edge. In other words, for me, a better steel is one that allows me to make the edge thinner (i.e., which means cut better) and still have enough edge integrity to cut for a while.

The reason I bring this up is because of your preferred sharpening method, which is 38 degrees regardless of the steel. To me, that's obnoxiously thick and non-performant, but if that's what you like best, fine. But from my point of view, there's little reason for you to go to a "better steel" as I define "better steel", because my definition of a better steel is one that I can sharpen to a thinner edge without giving up edge integrity. If you're just going to keep all your knives with obnoxiously thick edge, then the edge integrity doesn't matter so much because there's so much metal behind the edge, and a steel that might not work great for me because of edge integrity issues might work wonderfully for you because you do not see those issues, and all you care about is time between sharpenings and how often you need to touch up.

Anyway, the purpose here is to just present a different view of steel performance, and give you a better idea of why you might find a steel to be "better" even if others don't -- because your view of steel performance is different! And if your view is what works best for you, then it's all good.
 
[QUOTE=Joe Talmadge;4617707

The reason I bring this up is because of your preferred sharpening method, which is 38 degrees regardless of the steel. To me, that's obnoxiously thick and non-performant, but if that's what you like best, fine.

I'm not sure how you are measuring my angle of sharpening but I like you want my knife for cutting! Remember I said scary sharp and buy my Gatco sharpener the angle of 19 deg should only be used for fine fillet knives and fine boning knives. I assure you it is a fine edge. I am a knife nut and my knife is always shaving sharp now some of my fixed knives I go with not so fine an edge unless its my skinner. Anyway I still stand by my observation that 440v keeps the best fine scary sharp edge.

Cheers from the North
 
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