$50 knife shop?

[Kentucky]

The knifemaking community is overall very free with knowledge..Way back when I first started Blacksmithing(which was way before I ever made a knife) there was no internet forums to learn from.I stopped for a while.The blacksmithing community in general was tight lipped,scared to death someone else would make a penny off their techniques. I learned mostly the hard way. By ruining steel..If I can help someone not beat their head against the wall like I had too Ill do it.
People should feel lucky to live in an era of so much free,quaility information were crafts are concerned..I remember when it was the other way..

 

[tryppyr]

One thing I think needs to be said about this... the objective of setting up a cheap shop is one that almost every aspiring knifemaker has at the beginning of their journey. You have no idea whether you will "click" with it, you have limited funds to invest in such a speculative endeavor, and you are almost certainly being influenced by a lot of BAD/WORTHLESS YouTube videos that fill your head with garbage.

So it's natural that you want a book that offers advice on setting up a cheap shop.

On the other side of that are the more experienced knifemakers who will offer you advice that runs absolutely counter to your desires. "Invest in great tools up front", they will say, "so you don't have to invest twice." Great advice if you are absolutely certain this is something you want to do for a long time... but not such good advice if all you want to do is stick your toes in the water and try it out.

So at some level you have to find the path that makes sense to you. As others have noted, this forum has a LOT of good, free, accurate advice... as well as a lot of highly opinionated advice. Set your advice filter accordingly.

The advance of the Internet has provided a lot of ways to get access to information and advice. As is usual with the Internet about 90% of what you find is somewhere between questionable and total crap. You need to get a handle on who you can trust.

- Greg

 

[Iwannashoot]

Hammer,

You didn't mentionion in your OP what your intentions are (are you going to make a knife, or are you just an interested spectator?)

Every book has value and this one is very interesting if you are trying to gain a bit of the historical perspective on knife making. I for one was amazed to see how the guys back in that era were able to "make due" with a limited amount of investment, and still turn out a decent knife.

It was the first book that I checked out of the public library when I first thought I wanted to build a knife for myself. I think like Greg said, it colored my perspective and I spent way too much time trying to do things on the cheap. I still set a very limited budget for my knife making supplies as I have other hobbies that take priority over knife making. I really don't see the value in buying this book.

As has already been said, if you intend to start making knives there is much more current information here on this forum.

Best of Luck.

Jeff

 

[AVigil]

As is usual with the Internet about 90% of what you find is somewhere between questionable and total crap.

Actually I have found the opposite to be true. I have learned everything from making hand planed bamboo flyrods to using a mill and metal lathe as well as knifemaking from the internet.

The internet provides you more information then any other resource. It is the persons ability to process the information they come across and figure out what is accurate and what is not. If a person is poor at analyzing and comparing the information they can end up using the incorrect methods...but for the most part the correct method is online and can be cross referenced with other reliable sources.

People seem to bash Youtube videos all the time when it comes to knifemaking and I have found them to be extremely helpful and accurate in many cases and really help cut down the learning curve when it comes to knifemaking.

I think of people spent more time watching the skilled craftsman on Youtube they would cut down their learning curve extremely but it seems if it is not taught in 30 seconds people move on. It takes hours of watching YouTube Video to cut down years on the knifemaking curve.

What I have often found is people giving away tons of advice but when you try to find an example of their works....you often get crickets or a few lousy picts that purposely hide what they have done.

When people post tutorials online, close up picts of their work and videos...they are not just saying the words they are showing what they produce to back up what they say.

I believe people need to Google a knifemaker and check out their works and see if their if their advice actually matches what they make.

That is what is so great about our thread here on what is going on in your shop....You can actually see the skill of people you chat with here and can see if they really can do what they say they can do.

If 90% of what you find is questionable or full of crap, that simply means you are spending 90% of your time on the wrong websites.

 

[james terrio]

The internet provides you more information then any other resource. It is the persons ability to process the information they come across and figure out what is accurate and what is not. If a person is poor at analyzing and comparing the information they can end up using the incorrect methods...but for the most part the correct method is online and can be cross referenced with other reliable sources....

If 90% of what you find is questionable or full of crap, that simply means you are spending 90% of your time on the wrong websites.

I agree with Adam. The truth is out there, and easier to find than ever before. A little common sense goes a long, long way.

As for "$50 Knife Shop"... can you make a good knife following it? Yes! Can you make the very best knife possible using only that as a resource? No. It was never meant to be the ultimate treatise on anything... it's just meant to get people started.

 

[12345678910]

I dint' mention this yet, google the title followed by .pdf

There's a good chance you can find it and skim it online to guide you in deciding to buy it or not.

 

[tryppyr]

If 90% of what you find is questionable or full of crap, that simply means you are spending 90% of your time on the wrong websites.

Actually, Adam, you just made the same point I was making... you have to learn to filter in order to get to the good information.

 

[AVigil]

Actually, Adam, you just made the same point I was making... you have to learn to filter in order to get to the good information.

Except the majority of what I found actually was pretty helpful.

 

[tryppyr]

Except the majority of what I found actually was pretty helpful.

I didn't say they were all not helpful... just that they tended between questionable and crap. Questionable means things like people recommending used motor oil as a quenchant, for example. Sure, it works... it's just not the best choice. Questionable, as in recommending working with lawn mower blades and leaf springs. How many newbs do we see that tell us about all the videos they watches where these steels were preferred? Too many.

And then there are all the examples of how to use the wrong tools in dangerous ways.

Granted, my 90% figure was a pulled-from-thin-air number. The point is, what I see people talking about based on what they found in YouTube generally suggests they aren't getting to the right information by default.

 

[12345678910]

I didn't say they were all not helpful... just that they tended between questionable and crap. Questionable means things like people recommending used motor oil as a quenchant, for example. Sure, it works... it's just not the best choice. Questionable, as in recommending working with lawn mower blades and leaf springs. How many newbs do we see that tell us about all the videos they watches where these steels were preferred? Too many.

A

How do you fight against that ?

How to Forge a Big Knife from an Old Lawnmower Blade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyB7Lw7-p4
500,000 views

It was so successful, he made another one.

How to Turn a Lawnmower Blade Into A Combat Knife
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyB7Lw7-p4
80,000 views

And he's a smart fellow, knowledgeable about steel, a member here, and his day job pays him well enough he can afford good tools and good steel.



It's possible that it's just a case of giving people what they want because that's what they want whether it's right or not.

 

[AVigil]

Or they could see the exactly for what it is and then choose to learn from the vids from the ABS, Walter Sorrels, Nick Wheeler, Kevin Cashen and dozens of others highly skilled makers etc.

There are those who want to make a knife and use what they have on hand and there are those who want to make it correctly and the best they can.

When you know what you want....You choose how and what you learn.

Sure here we try to stir people into certain methods, some are interested and others are not.

Some know people have been making edged weapons for thousands of years without scientifically designed quench media and high tech tools and they just want to have a go at it. They are not interested in making the best, they just want to have a go at just making it.

We tend to get buttered if they do not take our advice...but hey, it is their journey and sometimes crap is good enough for them and they are happier making their "crap" then not trying at all because they do not have the $$$$ to do it our way.

 

[james terrio]

I've met AIG, he's a nice guy. Bit stubborn about the whole lawnmower blade thing, though; which is odd for a guy with his educational background. (Some men, you just can't reach.) Last I heard he was indeed utilizing fresh steel, quality tools, and very good HT. Of course, youtube vids live forever...

As the Count says, some people just want what they want. There's no sense arguing with them.

They are not interested in making the best, they just want to have a go at just making it.

Well said. And for that reason, I will "defend" the $50 Knife Shop, while staying short of really recommending it.

 

[Kentucky]

Well said. And for that reason, I will "defend" the $50 Knife Shop, while staying short of really recommending it.

I agree James..Most often the conversation turns too "don't waste your money on this"..Buy that(which happens to cost $2K) You know just because its what a full time knifemaker needs dosnt mean its what a hobby maker who just wants a usable knife from what he has lying around needs..If he wants to spend $100 bucks on equipment to makes knives then that's just fine..Maybe we should just give him our advice on how to spend that $100 and not try to have him spending $5000..

 

[AVigil]

I agree James..Most often the conversation turns too "don't waste your money on this"..Buy that(which happens to cost $2K) You know just because its what a full time knifemaker needs dosnt mean its what a hobby maker who just wants a usable knife from what he has lying around needs..If he wants to spend $100 bucks on equipment to makes knives then that's just fine..Maybe we should just give him our advice on how to spend that $100 and not try to have him spending $5000..

Goddard should write "The $5000" knife shop just for contrast

 

[drysideshooter]

Amen on the internet being an amazing source of information. You can actually watch someone really good show how they hand finish a knife. You can watch Free Rowe demonstrate how to use his bubble jig. Learning how to search is a skill worth honing.

 

[Josh Mason]

Wayne's book is what got me started with knifemaking. I say that, because I'm not sure if I would have gotten the courage to start something so intimidating and seemingly impossible if it hadn't existed. I read this book, and his other book, The Art of Knifemaking cover to cover probably a hundred times when I was younger, and it completely shattered my notions that the people who made knives had to have a big workshop with giant hammers, milling machines and grinders. It seemed like such an unreachable thing until I saw his book. It encouraged me to get out in the backyard with a crappy harbor freight bench grinder and some scrap steel, and make a start at it. After that, I naturally wanted to continue improving my tools and using better methods.

I will not say that the book is useless at all. There's still alot of good relevant info, diagrams, charts, pics etc. in these books.

 

[aarongough]

Interesting thread so far!

I get asked 'how do I get started' really, really often so for a while now I've been working on a pair of Youtube videos that cover how to make a knife start to finish with only basic hand tools. One video covers making a chef's knife, and the other covers a bushcraft/hunting knife. No-one is going to make the best possible knife from the videos but they're going to get a solid grounding in all the concepts involved, get a good set of basic tools, and also get a nice knife out of it.

I've deliberately kept the tools simple, and they're pretty much all usable for a variety of other things (only exception being the filing jig). Total cost for all the tools and materials is around $240 (all of them come from Amazon), and I simply don't think that it can be done for cheaper than that unless you were to find every tool needed at a garage sale or something.

Really the only issue that I have with the '$50 knife shop book' is simply the title. $50 in 1963 was a lot more than it is now, so the title is a bit misleading for modern day buyers... If we account for inflation the book would be called 'The $383 knife shop' which is pretty in line with the tool budget in the videos I'm making...

Also it should be said that there's little need for fancy quench oils for most people. Canola oil is a great alternative, it's cheap, it works well and it's available everywhere! Beats the pants off used motor oil or similar.