5160 vs A2; which is better?

I am looking into a hard use knife for general and field use.
What I want to know are the merits of 5160 over A2 and vice versa.
You know the basic corrosion, strength, edge holding, ease of sharpening and so on.
All help and info is appreciated.
TIA

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The bible is not such a book a man would write if he could, or could write if he would.

*Lewis S. Chafer

2 Tim 3:16
 
K

Ken Cox

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John Greco uses both A2 and 5160.
I get the impression he reserves the 5160 for his very large, chopping type blades.
It could have something to do with cost and availability in large widths, though.

Phil Hartsfield (Sp?) and Chris Reeve use A2 extensively.
A2 has a reputation as an extremely tough knife steel.

My Greco Persian in A2 seems indestructible.
I have used it to carve hickory and I got tired before it showed any sign of losing its hair-shaving edge.
In some reviews of Greco knives, the reviewer has punched the knife through automobile sheet metal with out damage to the edge.
With 5% chrome, one would not expect A2 to have appreciable corrosion resistance, and yet my Greco has no sign of stains or corrosion after two years of everyday casual use.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom

 
Ken,

How is the Persian shaped? Do you have any experience with 5160?

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The bible is not such a book a man would write if he could, or could write if he would.

*Lewis S. Chafer

2 Tim 3:16

[This message has been edited by Scarman (edited 29 November 1999).]
 
I have no experience with 5160 other than the fact that John Greco uses it and I have a lot of respect for his experience and knowledge.

I will post a picture of the Persian, here, later this afternoon.
You can give John a call right now at 270-932-3335; IMHO, a very knowledgeable man.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom

 
Hello,

I myself love 5160 its GREAT!!!!

I have used it for the past 11 yrs with great success, hardened Properly of course.

I am doing a Performance video of my stock removal knives featuring a 1/4 inch 6 inch
full Flat ground blade of 5160 that has been
(zone hardened) and triple tempered, and it`s
performance has been Outstanding.

Wayne Goddard is a big proponent of 5160
as a heavy duty use blade material for large chopping jobs, due to its toughness and
strength.

There is Specific Heat treating that also makes 5160 a great material for small, general utility and , Big choppers as well.

If i was Looking for a good General Field ,
hard use take alot of abuse type knife, i dont think you could go wrong with a Properly Ground and hardened 5160 blade.

In fact a few of the new MARBELS knives in the Big blade range are using 5160 as there base blade material, and 52100 for there smaller knives.

Anyway hope this helps, if ya need more info on 5160 send me an email and i will try to help.

Thanks ,
Allen Blade
 
I don't have enough experience with 5160 to speak definitively, but my STRICTLY gut-feel is...

5160 is often differentially tempered, adding a big variable in the mix. Differentially tempered, the back will be extraordinarily tough, and because 5160 is tough in general, even the hardened edge should be reasonably tough. Given "typical" heat treats, I probably would expect A-2 to hold an edge better but be less tough than 5160, but of course with a differential temper you can adjust these things on the 5160 blade. And the thing is, both knives will probably perform well in both areas. I also expect A-2 to rust less.

I doubt you'd go wrong with either steel for a general-use big blade. I might lean towards A-2 only because I'm a bit more familiar with it. Or maybe I'd lean towards 5160 to get more experience with it.

This is about as wishy-washy as I get, I think
smile.gif


Joe
 
Can A-2 be differentially-tempered? I read somewhere (in Hoods forum ?)like Rob did it on his Kukri. ? Pls correct if I'm wrong.

Recently I talked to Mike Fuller of TOPS. He said users seemed to have problems sharpening A-2 knives in the field, so he wouldn't make more models from this steel. Anyway, I just got a A-2 Stromrider and I think I like it more than 1095.

Dew.

[This message has been edited by Dew (edited 29 November 1999).]
 
I've heard air-hardening steels can be differentially tempered, but very few people do it. Maybe Rob will jump in and tell us about it
 
"punched the knife through automobile sheet metal with out damage to the edge."

Huh??? I'm resigned to seeing that about twice a week from newbies, but not from you, Ken!

Practically any knife made will penetrate the thin mild steel sheet auto bodies are made of. If it's a $5 knife made of 420-J2 surgical cheese, the edge will be noticeably dulled, especially if you stick it in five or ten times before you get bored....

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
I just seen this thread and thought I should reply. A-2 can be differentially tempered, but not to the extent that a 5160 blade can. The Kukri mentioned above has a back that is 54 Rc and the edge is 60 Rc, according to my notes. Mike Turber should have this blade in his hands by tomorrow for the 9" knife test. I have limited experiance with 5160, but the treatment is different due to the oil quench. One can edge quench 5160 and have a better differential heat treat than I can get with the a-2. I like the A-2 better however due to the easy heat treat, good response to sub zero quench, better corrosion resistance and finer grain. 5160 is a great steel I just havent played with it much.

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www.simonichknives.com
 
Cougar Allen
check the article about Wayne Valachovic's Super Damascus knife test in Knife World III. They have hacked at steel bars, driven the knife into an oil barrel using a sledge, thrown it against the wall an so on without any damage to the edge. And i think Wayne's reputation is good enough not to allow anyone to write any bull about his knives, especially when he is doing the test on his own.

Have a nice day!

Achim
 
I know that Sean Perkins does differential head-treat on A2, enough to leave a visable, if simple, hamon. I also have a Peter Burt blade in forged 5160 with a very nice temper, it's damn tough!
Aaron

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amacks@nist.gov
Don't forget to pay your taxes...they eventually become my knives:)

 
I think A2 would be the better choice for your knife, unless you are making a throwing knife or maybe an axe. If I'm not mistaken, 5160 is used for things like leaf springs and such. So it's probably though as hell and for a throwing knife or maybe an axe a good choice. A2 would probably be the better choice if you plan on having and keeping a sharp edge.
 
I was with Allen last night, filming him chop his way through a 2x10 with a 6 inch knife of 5160.

He got through it and it would still shave hair.

Then he chopped into Micarta, and it still shaved.

Very impressive.

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Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com
Coeur D'Alene, ID
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

An interesting business oppurtunity... http://www.geocities.com/selouss

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
Hello,

yep i killed a 2x10 and a chunk of Micarta,,,, and i am paying for it today,,,my back hurts from swinging that dang knife so many times!!!

And to think it was just a stock removal blade (hehehe!! ) but DAVID you forgot to tell them about the Beating on the Blade Spine and tip as we used it for Splitting up the Remains of the 2x10 by hammering it through!!

I love 5160,,,if heat treated right of course. I have out performed alot of other Alloy blades with 5160 (zone hardened).
It all comes down to the Thermal Cycles involved in the Heat treating.

And of course blade Grind and edge geometry and other factors also come into play to get a performance blade.

The other good aspect of 5160 is that
after you get a properly heat treated 5160 blade to go dull , it only takes a few wipes on a pair of ceramic Crock stiks to bring it right back to its original sharpness,Great stuff it is!! i think other makers dont use 5160 because its considered a AUTOMOBILE LEAF spring material and in there mind it cant be as good as the mystical magical high Alloys that cost bunches.

Nothing could be further from the truth as a Properly heat treated blade of 5160 will in all likelyhood out perform most of these alloys, in a complete testing realm.

Anyway i will have enough Proof on Video soon to Calm any assertions that 5160 isnt a great Strong duty blade material.

Thanks and take care,

Allen Blade

[This message has been edited by Allen Blade (edited 02 December 1999).]
 
Hello,

Mr. Stamp, yes i sure have made that size. I make a Combat Patrol Bowie with a 12.5 inch Blade of 5160 and an overall length of 17.5 inches. The largest Cutlery
i have made from 5160 is my Custom KATANA`s
that come in at a blade length of between 28 and 31 inches .

I personally like the Combat patrol Bowie i make at a 10 inch blade length out of 1/4 inch stock. It basically does anything i could ask of it out in the field.

Take care,

Allen Blade
 
Allen,

Could you e-mail me and give me more info on 5160, i.e. strengths, weaknesses, rust potential, methods of care for the blade, etc....
I am also quite interested in a catalog or product info you may have.

TIA


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The vague and tenuous hope that GOD is too kind to punish the ungodly has become a deadly opiate for the conscience of millions.

*A. W. Tozer

2 Cor 5:10
 
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