52100? good for a large bowie?

K

KLOW

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Nov 17, 2005
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Hi, I'm thinking about getting a very large bowie (12 to 16 inch blade) made of 52100, providing the maker is game. I already have large bowies made of O-1, honestly how does 52100 compare? tougher, better edge retention? is it suitable for a knife this size? And is there a place that sells it in flatbar (I've read that it can be a pain in the neck to forge it from round bar).

Thank you all very much in advance,

Cheers, Ken
 
Any steel can be a pain in round bar. It's not restrictive to 52100. To get a flat bar large enough for a Bowie from round bar, you'd have to forge down about a 1 inch bar. That's lot of work without a power hammer or press.
There are plenty of steel's good for a Bowie, it's mostly a matter of having the knowlege to heat treat it correctly.
52100 is a little tricky, and it would help a lot if the maker had ramp-ability on a controlled heating device such as a heat treating oven.
5160 might be a little less demanding, and will create a fantstic Bowie as well.

http://www.52100steel.com/products.html
 
My 0.02 cents worth,,,,

52100 is a fantastic steel for a large Bowie. Ed Fowler took a lot of trick out of HTing 52100 and has also studied the results from forging down from large stock.
 
52100 is on the extreme hypereutectoid side of things meaning it was designed for abrasion resistance and compressive type strength- bearings. Properly heat treated it will make a nice hunter or other slicing blade. It can be made to function well as a large chopper with all kinds of creative heat treating but this is more or less forcing a square peg into a round hole. In order to avoid many issues that make it good for bearings but not so great for knives one must be careful to watch how much of that 1% carbon is put into solution and where it ends up when done, so it is not a steel that is easily heat treated by folks without equipment to do so. Looking at all the goofy added effort and steps that folks put into it to get it to "perform" is good evidence of this. Low temperature cycling and large amounts of differential heat treating are ways to cope with plate martensite, excess carbides that can be coarse or in the grain boundaries, retained austenite etc...

Steels that stick closer to the eutectoid like, 1060, 1070, 1080, 1084, L6, 5160 etc... are a more natural fit for large choppers. Alloys that incorporate silicon or nickel also benefit from gains in impact strength without sacrificing hardness. A whole lot of mystique has grown up around 52100 as a result of a lot of interesting P.R., while it is not a bad steel not all of the acclaim is legitimate.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
... A whole lot of mystique has grown up around 52100 as a result of a lot of interesting P.R., while it is not a bad steel not all of the acclaim is legitimate.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have always heard that it was "5160 on steroids" -as in good to forge but overall amazing.
 
I can fix you up on some 52100 flat bar. I would try for the big bowie but am too far behind at this time.
I have made competition knives with 52100 from 8" to 10" and a 13" bolo type blade for clearing 2" and under green sprouts. 52100 seems to me to work about the same as the other steels except " you have to pay attention and not skip steps".
Maybe there is a large difference in the types of martinsite that can be had with the steel due to the small amount of chromium that is added for deep hardening. The batch I have is a little low on carbon for 52100 but is high on performance. Maybe that is why it works so well for me. I prefer to work with the steel that I believe is the best for knives. To me, that is 52100. I took all the performance tests using it for the ABS and have had others test the steel. It is good and I see no reason for not making a big knife from it. If the maker understands the steel.
 
There is a certain production maker using 52100, and I can attest that the steel is entirely adequate, if not the best option, for hard use chopper-style knives.:thumbup:
 
I'll have to agree, 52100 done rite will make an excellent chopper. It may not be quite as tough as 5160, but it will be tougher than most people can imagine. I did some test a few years ago, 52100 vs. 5160, basicly a couple of small thin knives and started cutting 10 penny nails on a block of steel hitting the spine with a 3lb. hammer. The 5160 survived in better condidtion, the 52100 cut about a dozen nails before the edge chiped, the 5160 blunted. I was hammering them through the same spot on the edge. I figure as long as your not trying to chop down metal trees and the heat treat is dead on you shouldn't have a problem with a big knife made from 52100.

Good to see you on the forums Ray, Raker is a good guy to deal with and can roll the steel down for.
 
52100 has much more potential than any maker has realized at this point. We have been working with it for over 10 years and continue to learn. We share all we learn, some call it hype, all we ask is give it a try and share your earned knowledge with us.
My suggestion:
Ask the maker how he tests his knives and about his guarantee and you will have an idea what you can expect from his work.
 
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