52100 Steel Blades

M

matthewjacobs

Joined
Feb 1, 2014
Messages
4
Hey guys,
I just ordered a foot long of 52100 - .130 x 1.5"... I have made knives before but never heat treated or used this quality of steel.. I am making 2 knives from it hopefully, 1 for my brother and 1 for my father. both will be hunting knives and i already handmade both handles from whitetail antlers. 1 any suggestions for cutting the knifes shape? 2 from my research thus far, I think i should heat treat the blades after i cut and grind them.. I don't really know how though. please help, I would appreciate it!
~Matt
 
Matt start by filling out your profile so others(especially those with more experience than me) can better help guide you. Read the stickies at the top of this page, there is a lot of good info there. I am sure the Count will also be along shortly with his standard reply to new makers.

As far as advice on the project at hand you need to first design your blades. If you are limiting yourself to this single piece of steel I would suggest making a 3 1/2 or maybe 4"(tops) long blade and designing it so that the tangs of the 2 blades are 4" long and will fit along side each other in the middle 4" of the bar. Show some pictures of your blade design and be willing to take critiques and suggestions on changes. As far as cutting out your pattern, this can be as simple as a hacksaw or as elaborate as a water jet. You say you have made some knives before, how did you cut them out? Then grind your bevels. From what you say about yourself and from what little I know of 52100, I would recommend sending it out for heat treat.

Good luck and don't get discouraged,
Chris
 
I already had the size in mind and my brother picked out a shape from a page of them I drew.. I can't afford to send it out right now though so I am really hopingg to find a way to do it at home. And I used a dremmal with many cutting discs and a bench grinder. I want these knifes to be completely profession though, it's for family. And I know they will use them a lot
 
Welcome to Shop Talk, Matthew.

Pictures and plans will help a lot.

What experience do you have in knifemaking? Tools, equipment, etc?

HT for 52100 will not be a good choice without the right equipment. It isn't a back-yard HT steel. 1084 would have been a better choice.

Also, .130" is pretty thick stuff for a small utility hunter. .090-.100" would have been better.

There are a bunch of makers in your general area. Finding one will probably get the HT done at a shop visit.
 
thanks, and im not too worried about it being too thick, i wanted it a little extra in parts, il grind most of it off but with the extra i can form it the way i want, and i only have outlines of the blades for now. the handles came out great though, looking like something from Cabelas haha but when i get the steel in the mail i will cut and grind it to the shape of both knives, and upload pictures of the blades and the handles and of course the finished product., and after talking to my father, (was a welder in the Navy) he agreed to help me/show me how to heat treat at home. and i told him its 52100, he said he can do it so im sure he will be able to
 
If you cant afford to send it out for heat treat, you cannot heat treat it at home. The temperature measuring equipment is more expensive by far than professional heat treat. If the plan is to heat it to no magnetic, then quench in used motor oil, it won't work. 52100 needs precise temperature control and appropriate soak times. It's a great steel if you have the temp control to heat treat.

For future reference, it's usually easier to finish the handle once it is attached to the knife, as the handle and blade get sanded to their final fitment..
 
To back up Willie's comments - With all respect to your Dad's welding experience ( Go Navy!), the metallurgy of 52100 will not allow a home HT with a torch. It may get hard, but be a much less quality blade than it would with a proper HT in an oven.

As far as thickness goes, measure two or three of your favorite small hunting knives. I bet none are near .130" thick anywhere. Most popular commercial hunters I have measured are around .08" (or less).

The Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland is full of knifemakers. It meets at the Carroll County farm Museum. http://www.bgcmonline.org/
decker used to be a very active maker in your area, but I haven't seen him post in well over a year. You might want to send him an email anyway - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/148420-deker
 
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You certainly have an ip hill climb! You have picked a high performance steel, but it doesnt sound like you have the equipment to get anywhere near the potential of the steel. You would end up with a better knife if you used 1084 with the ht equipment you have. You said you wanted a really professional job, but it will be hard to do with that steel. Send it out or buy some 1084, you will be happier in the end. I think .130 is fine for hunter, lots of customs are in the range. It would be thick for a fillet knife! I you do the work, I think your dad and brother should pay for the ht. or a new bar of steel. sounds fair to me!
Good luck
 
I have been working with .125 (1/8) and ordered some .130, I really wasn't thinking at the time but when it showed up it is a bit thicker than I pictured, and ordered up some .125 and put the .130 on the shelf for something later on. As for HT Darrin Sanders who is a member here will do your heat treating at a very reasonable rate.
 
Spend the $20 and get them heat treated properly. Or call the supply house you got the steel from and see if they will switch it out for 1084 or 1080+ .
 
I have to agree with what has been said. 52100 is not for a beginner, and even gives experienced smiths fits sometimes. I like what Willie said, "If you can't afford to send it off for heat treat, you certainly can't afford to do it at home." By the time you build a forge capable of heat treating the knife, you could have sent it off for much less dinero. And even if you built a forge....if you can't control the time and temp accurately, you're not going to get the best out of 52100. A torch against the blade will not cut it. Like Stacy mentioned....it will get hard(er), but you'll have retained austenite and doubtfully reach full RC. Depending on who you bought the 52100 from, it could be super spherodized, and would require thorough normalization cycles, not able to be done with a torch. If your heart is set on 52100, which is a SUPERB steel, send it off. If you are like me when I started, and just HAD to do it myself, you would be the man of the month if you would get you some 1080 or 1084. If your blade is small and thin, a torch will harden this steel easier than 52100, if you can get even and consistent heat, and I'm sure you understand that simply holding a torch against a blade to heat treat it isn't ideal, unless we're talking about a small chisel, or punch, or something that size.
 
samuraistuart said:
I have to agree with what has been said. 52100 is not for a beginner, and even gives experienced smiths fits sometimes. I like what Willie said, "If you can't afford to send it off for heat treat, you certainly can't afford to do it at home." By the time you build a forge capable of heat treating the knife, you could have sent it off for much less dinero. And even if you built a forge....if you can't control the time and temp accurately, you're not going to get the best out of 52100. A torch against the blade will not cut it. Like Stacy mentioned....it will get hard(er), but you'll have retained austenite and doubtfully reach full RC. Depending on who you bought the 52100 from, it could be super spherodized, and would require thorough normalization cycles, not able to be done with a torch. If your heart is set on 52100, which is a SUPERB steel, send it off. If you are like me when I started, and just HAD to do it myself, you would be the man of the month if you would get you some 1080 or 1084. If your blade is small and thin, a torch will harden this steel easier than 52100, if you can get even and consistent heat, and I'm sure you understand that simply holding a torch against a blade to heat treat it isn't ideal, unless we're talking about a small chisel, or punch, or something that size.
Click to expand...

I did a hunter for a friend and used the following heat treat cycle: 1500h for 10min, 1400h for 10 min, 1300h for 10min, the 1500h for 10 min and quench in fast oil. Temper x2 2h @400f. The edge chipped an rolled, and the tip curled into a corkscrew shape trying to stab through a boar's belly. I got my Rc tester after he tried the knife on a hunt, and the numbers varied from Rc60, to Rc27. I didn't do the first 10min @1650 to get everything into solution like I do now. The knife was unusable. I re-profiled it smaller, re-heat treated it with the proper cycle, and I can cut through nails without damaging the edge now. Great steel, but you need to massage it into its max performance.
 
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