710 or Military?

I just want to take a moment to thank all of the respondents for the well thought out replies to my original question. A lot of good points were made, and I especially appreciate the fact that opinions were accompanied by evidence to back up that opinion.

It looks like the opinion here is overwhelmingly in favor of the 710, in particular, the 710HS. I don't think anybody addressed this point, and so I'd like to call it out specifically.

I plan to make this my "all-purpose" knife, to do everything from urban utility chores to work around the house. Is this overkill? Or is this the role that the 710HS is suited for (all-around utility, from cutting string to opening letters to opening boxes to trimming branches...etc.). What do you typically use your 710 for?

Thanks again!

Matthew
 
If I had to pick one of my knives, and only one, it would be the 710hs. No knife will be perfect for everything, but this knife is better at more things than any other knife I have used or owned.

I find it's good for food because the blade is long enough to cut all the way though most sandwiches & blocks of cheese (as most 3" blades aren't) and the teflon coating is real easy to clean off, just like your teflon coated pots & pans.

This knife will easily handle all of your basic utility stuff (paper, cardboard, rope, food, leather, wood, etc.) and it can handle a lot more than that. I remember reading a post somewhere (maybe in the BM forum?) about someone stabbing it into a log and beating on the butt with another log to split the wood, no damage to the knife. I believe someone else did a lock strength test as soon as it came out and stabbed it into a tree and did pull-ups on it, no damage to the knife.

I imagine it would be possible to "overkill" the 710hs, but you'd have to try real hard.

See this thread also: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=160772
 
Thanks medusaoblongata. When I said "overkill", what I meant was, "Is the 710HS simply an overpowered knife for the chores I have in mind?".

Matthew
 
Originally posted by medusaoblongata
I remember reading a post somewhere (maybe in the BM forum?) about someone stabbing it into a log and beating on the butt with another log to split the wood, no damage to the knife.
Click to expand...

I did that with my 710BT.
No damage to the lock or blade...or anything else really.
The only thing that happend was the teflon on the spine came off a tiny bit.

As for what I used (past tense, I stupidly sold it to a friend) mine for the most was eating at diner.
 
The 710hs isn't overkill for what you have in mind, though it can handle much more. If you decide to go ith the 710, here is what you should be asking yourself: Given that the ATS-34 version of the 710 will be able to handle whatever I ask of it, do I want the M-2 blade to get something even tougher? Keep in mind that the M-2 blade will come with a black coating. If you don't mind that, then hey, I say go for the best knife you can get, and that means M-2. Despite your intended use, you never know what you might call on your knife to do. But, if you don't like black coatings, then you can rest assured that you can stick to an uncoated ATS-34 710, and it will still perform wonderfully for you. I have an ATS-34 version, and it is awesome.

Joe
 
Hi Joe,

Does it really look like "black gunk"?

Based on some of your other posts, I thought that you owned an M2 version. Now I know for a fact that you are a steel guru :-), so could you summarize the strong and weak points of M2 and ATS-34? (Is it ATS-34 or 154CM?)

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by Starfish
Hi Joe,

Does it really look like "black gunk"?

Based on some of your other posts, I thought that you owned an M2 version. Now I know for a fact that you are a steel guru :-), so could you summarize the strong and weak points of M2 and ATS-34? (Is it ATS-34 or 154CM?)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Heh, no, it doesn't really look like black gunk. In fact it looks outrageously cool, when it's new. Even the best coatings scratch badly in use. Benchmade's black coating does seem to penetrate the steel and still protects against corrosion even when scratched, but it's the scratched-up look that many people don't like. This isn't so much my concern, I don't mind that a knife meant for use has a well-worn look, in fact I think it gives it character. More important to me is that black coated blades look more aggressive to most people, and I just wasn't happy with how much attention my black-coated knives seemed to draw.

Rather than talking generally about M-2 and ATS-34, we can talk specifically about those steels as Benchmade heat treats them. Given Benchmade's latest ATS-34 heat treat, which seems to have backed off on the hardness a little bit (making it tougher but weaker), I'd say M-2 is still definitely tougher than ATS-34 (i.e., less likely to chip, so you can take the edge thinner for better performance), a bit stronger (i.e., less likely to indent when you hit something hard, and less susceptible to edge rolling), and probably holds an edge better (we haven't tested this head to head in a while though).

Joe
 
Joe's right, but I think it's important to note that ATS-34 and 154-CM are stainless steels, whereas M2 is not. That's why M2 is offered only with the coating.

Now, if you don't treat the stainless blades right, they will rust. But if you're good, they won't.
 
About the BT2 coating, when it's new, its sorta shiny and a little lumpy looking.
I think it looks cool though after you've used it a little while.
The coating wears a little and the whole surface turns a nice smooth almost satin black. I like the used smooth look (as long as there arent any scratches).
 
I you could aford to get both but the spyderco is better at slicing because of the flat ground blade I have both and they are super knives you can't go wrong with either one.
 
Some good words on Military side, just for diversity ;)

I like BM 710 a lot because:
* It is stronger - no wonders, the handle with two thicker steel liners must be stronger than the one with single thinner liner.
* Axis Lock is more reliable and less prone to accidental disengaging.
* It has some advantages more but all they have already mentioned in this thread.

However my favorite all around household knife and outdoors folding knife is Military rather than BM 710. Why?
* I like flat ground blade over saber ground one, especially dealing with food preparing.
* I like SpyredHole over opening stud.
* I like tip-down carry over tip-up one, even in case of the lock holding blade in closed position as reliably as Axis Lock does.
* I like lighter and thinner though slightly longer package.
* The most important - handling comfort for hard cutting for me is better in case of Military. Simply I like to put my thumb slightly forwards comparing with forefinger's position but BM 710 handle forces me to move it backwards.

On the other hand - I always use my knives with care so the Military's strength and lockup reliability are quite enough for me. Naturally all mentioned concerns the household and outdoors carry only. I have noticed than both Military and BM 710 are not bystander-friendly in practically equal grade. I use somewhat smaller knives for city daily carry, but it's a topic for another discussion.
 
I'd take the 710 10 times out of 10. I can see the Military having an advantage for food prep, and that's about it. Feels positively flimsy compared to the 710, which I feel is a much stronger, and better all-around design.
Originally posted by Sergiusz Mitin
Simply I like to put my thumb slightly forwards comparing with forefinger's position but BM 710 handle forces me to move it backwards.
Click to expand...

This is one of the few things I dislike about the 710. I'd much rather do without the thumb ramp. The main reason I'd like to see an Axis AFCK (had to mention that, naturally) is the lack of a thumb ramp, and the index finger cutout, which I like very much. The 710 is very comfortable for me, the AFCK even more so. Better handle shape, IMO.
BT2 coating after use? What BT2 coating after use?:p
View

It does look great when new.....
 
Originally posted by Starfish
You stated that the Military is optimized for slicing. Two questions:

1) What do you consider to be slicing? Like slicing bread?

Click to expand...

To be clear, what I typed was:

"CPM 440V is designed for slicing IMHO. Resists abrasion well. Fine grain structure, will take polished edge. Also takes a great toothy, grabby edge, so for what I typically do, I don't need serrations."

This is a comment about CPM440V steel, and not about the Military per se.

Slicing, as versus chopping or push cutting.

Slicing: yes, like sawing back & forth through a thick piece of rope, or pulling blade through say bread.

Push Cutting: like pushing the blade straight through a wooden dowel or a bunch of wire... when you "chop" vegetables in the kitchen, you are mostly push cutting the blade through the veggies.

At a given blade hardness, CPM440V is less tough = more brittle than ATS-34 and especially vs. M2.

However, CPM440V is a very high alloy material loaded with chrome carbides (Rc60-68), molybdenum carbides (Rc 72-77) and especially with vanadium carbides. The vanadium carbide "particles" or crystals are very hard, ~ Rc 80-84. When they are embedded in the underlying matrix of steel (iron+carbon) they provide abrasion resistance, so that when you slice or saw back and forth on rope say, you will wear the edge down via abrasion more slowly than with a more ordinary blade.

Starfish, for more on this topic, use the search engine on combinations of these words and you'll find rich content on the topic of edge retention and abrasion resistance:
CPM, 440V, carbide, hardness, 420V, vanadium, retention.
 
Thanks rdangerer for the explanation, and thanks everyone for the feedback. I have just finished "Haggling Thursday" with Mr. Cumberland of Cumberland Knives for a 710HS - I hope to understand soon what everybody here already seems to know! :)

Thanks again everybody!

Matthew
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top