80CRV2 hardening fail

AddictChris

AddictChris

Joined
May 18, 2019
Messages
43
So I’ve made a pile of knives now using 1095, 1084, W1, W2, 15n20, made Damascus, etc.
I’ve been getting pretty confident in my n00b skills.

till today. Tried 80CRV2 for the first time. Made a pretty simple blade. Got the steel from Aldo,
Followed their instructions to the letter.

1480 F., 15 minute soak, quench in parks AAA

not hard. Weird. My temps are tight. I have an even heat kiln, brand new. Works great, and the color of the steel was spot on what I expected coming out of the oven.
No delay quenching, I don’t even take one step to the quench.

an HRC 50 file was eating it for lunch 5 minutes after quenching.

ok, tried again. Everything the same except I quenched in parks 50 this time.

Still not hard

only factor that I can think may have been an issue is I did not preheat the oil. The documentation did not recommend preheating the quenchant.
This was never a problem with other steels, but maybe 80CRV2 is more sensitive to this?
 
Parks 50 doesn't need pre heat. Those files are inaccurate in my experience.

Did you run thermal cycles? Did you grind off the decarb layer?
 
N.W. Gean said:
Parks 50 doesn't need pre heat. Those files are inaccurate in my experience.

Did you run thermal cycles? Did you grind off the decarb layer?
Click to expand...

No normalizing cycles. This was a stock removal knife (no forging) made with the steel direct from New Jersey steel baron,
Which comes completely annealed. Should not require normalizing according to my research.

I waited 5 minutes after quenching, and then ground off the decarb before checking hardness.

I don’t take those HRC files as gospel, but if the steel hardens properly a HRC50 file just isn’t going to dig big grooves in it.
I’ve used the same files on every other steel I’ve worked with and I get the expected results every time.

This steel didn’t harden.
 
I have had really good luck with that steel using that same method. One thing I can tell you is that the decarb is very heavy!
Take it to the grinder for some light passes and hit it again with your file... there is a very good chance that blade is hard.
Good luck!
 
Thadbow said:
I have had really good luck with that steel using that same method. One thing I can tell you is that the decarb is very heavy!
Take it to the grinder for some light passes and hit it again with your file... there is a very good chance that blade is hard.
Good luck!
Click to expand...

I did that before bringing the question to the forum.

I was testing the hardness on a completely clean steel surface.

interestingly enough, I’ve seen a couple suppliers state a much higher austenizing temp than 1480 F

Some giving a range from 1550 to as high as 1620

im going to try my luck at 1550 but go back to the parks AAA and see what happens...
 
Once upon a time (may have been changed since then?)that steel was notorious for being in a heavy coarse spheroidized state and needed thermal cycles to get everything into solution.
 
Hm.

OK 1550 F. for a 15 minute soak, quench in AAA, wait 5, grind off decarb and test with file

Not hard.

don’t know what I’m doing wrong here. Never had issues with any other kind of steel, so I must be missing something...
 
Kentucky said:
Once upon a time (may have been changed since then?)that steel was notorious for being in a heavy coarse spheroidized state and needed thermal cycles to get everything into solution.
Click to expand...

I’ve worked with 80CrV2 a few times and had the same problem of it not hardening. I read somewhere on here that it needs thermo cycling to put everything in the solution. Whether that person was lying or not I went out and tried it and It got it hard. That may be the case or maybe I got lucky. I would try it on some scrap cut offs from the same bar stock you are using.
 
Diego_B said:
I’ve worked with 80CrV2 a few times and had the same problem of it not hardening. I read somewhere on here that it needs thermo cycling to put everything in the solution. Whether that person was lying or not I went out and tried it and It got it hard. That may be the case or maybe I got lucky. I would try it on some scrap cut offs from the same bar stock you are using.
Click to expand...

The prevailing opinion is that if it’s a stock removal blade on steel straight from the supplier that thermal cycling isn’t required.

That said, I’ve got nothing to lose by giving it a shot. ;-)

Too late for tonite, but tomorrow I’ll do my normal thermal cycling process I use for stuff that I forge. I’ll report my results
 
If you search you can see my many posts on this subject as I have gotten tons of blades from customers that bought steel from them and it won’t harden no matter what. If you contact them thy will question your oven, your quench oil and soak time. Thy even questioned my temp of parks 50 saying it needed to be at 100° because it was at 65°-70°. Then thy moved on to I needed to soak at higher temps. I told them I did a 1600° normalizing cycle and was told I had to do 1650. I did everything thy said and still it would not harden. Some blades would harden but where really patchy with hard and soft spots which showed up when polishing. So I guess I can say I’m not surprised your blade will not harden which is sad. I have bought some 80CrV2 from them in the past but only from one known lot and all the same thickness of .187. But recently with how thy have handled my current order we will be shopping elsewhere for 80CrV2. And we buy a TON of 80CrV2. Currently if someone check marks NJSB as the steel source in check out thy are informed of their hardening issues and we automatically thermal cycle it. Some times it works and other times the blades fail to harden. But it’s just there carbon steels as thy are not from a know mill like uddaholm or crucible.
 
JTknives said:
If you search you can see my many posts on this subject as I have gotten tons of blades from customers that bought steel from them and it won’t harden no matter what. If you contact them thy will question your oven, your quench oil and soak time. Thy even questioned my temp of parks 50 saying it needed to be at 100° because it was at 65°-70°. Then thy moved on to I needed to soak at higher temps. I told them I did a 1600° normalizing cycle and was told I had to do 1650. I did everything thy said and still it would not harden. Some blades would harden but where really patchy with hard and soft spots which showed up when polishing. So I guess I can say I’m not surprised your blade will not harden which is sad. I have bought some 80CrV2 from them in the past but only from one known lot and all the same thickness of .187. But recently with how thy have handled my current order we will be shopping elsewhere for 80CrV2. And we buy a TON of 80CrV2. Currently if someone check marks NJSB as the steel source in check out thy are informed of their hardening issues and we automatically thermal cycle it. Some times it works and other times the blades fail to harden. But it’s just there carbon steels as thy are not from a know mill like uddaholm or crucible.
Click to expand...

Can you recommend a more reliable source?
 
AddictChris said:
The prevailing opinion is that if it’s a stock removal blade on steel straight from the supplier that thermal cycling isn’t required.

That said, I’ve got nothing to lose by giving it a shot. ;-)

Too late for tonite, but tomorrow I’ll do my normal thermal cycling process I use for stuff that I forge. I’ll report my results
Click to expand...
Stock removal or forged isnt the issue. The issue is the condition of the steel. If its fine spheroid its ready to go.. If its coarse spheroid then it must be thermal cycled to get the carbon back into solution..
Now Im not saying yours is either condition as I just dont know. Just saying it might be worth a try as it "use to be a thing" ran across here.. I hope you get it figured out, good luck with it..
 
Pop's Knife Supply for 8670. Supposed to be tougher than 80crv2. I haven't heavily tested it yet but it grinds and drills real easy.
 
Well what a disappointing experience :)

Today I did normalizing cycles, 1650, 1550, 1450, 1350 soaking 10 min at each temp, cooling all the way to black in between.

Oddly enough, the blade stayed straight as an arrow through 3 attempts to harden yesterday, but today it warped while normalizing?!?!

Tried again to harden, and once again not hard.

Glad I only bought two pieces of that steel to try it out. I'be bought a bunch of steel from Aldo (1095, 1084, 15n20, W2) and never had this issue before. I guess his 80CRV2 sucks, or since other people have not had issue with it, at the least its not consistent. Lesson learned.

Just now I bought two more pieces of 80CRV2 from Alpha Knife Supply based on the recommendations here, and when it arrives I'll have another go :)
 
AddictChris said:
Well what a disappointing experience :)

Today I did normalizing cycles, 1650, 1550, 1450, 1350 soaking 10 min at each temp, cooling all the way to black in between.

Oddly enough, the blade stayed straight as an arrow through 3 attempts to harden yesterday, but today it warped while normalizing?!?!

Tried again to harden, and once again not hard.

Glad I only bought two pieces of that steel to try it out. I'be bought a bunch of steel from Aldo (1095, 1084, 15n20, W2) and never had this issue before. I guess his 80CRV2 sucks, or since other people have not had issue with it, at the least its not consistent. Lesson learned.

Just now I bought two more pieces of 80CRV2 from Alpha Knife Supply based on the recommendations here, and when it arrives I'll have another go :)
Click to expand...
Did you protect steel when you do normalizing cycles ? 40 min on high temperature , there are lot of decarb.............?
 
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