80CrV2 HT help

Spheroidizing comes in two forms, course and fine. Aldo's 52100 is course, requiring normalizing temps to break them up. If the 80crv2 came from Aldo, check what type of spheroidizing his steel comes in. I've used a few pieces from a couple years ago, and they hardened without normalizing. If he has a new batch, or you got it from a different source, check the steel condition with the supplier. I bypass failures by cycling most of the steels I use, with few exceptions (15n20 from Aldo, hitachi steels.) you get the best blade you can by doing this, rather than just good enough.
 
Warren, if there is a way to figure out if steel is course spheroidized vs fine spheroidized, I am all ears. AFAIK, there is no way to tell, until you try to harden it and you get maybe 62 at best. The 95% spher vs 98% spher at the bottom of the page on his site means very little to me. O1, the Blue 2 he had, O7, CFV, A2, and the stainless steels, these usually always come fine spheroidized and don't need any special treatment. The spring steels and low allow carbon steels other than the ones mentioned....these should always be normalized and cycled, because they are probably coarse spheroidized, and as you mentioned the 52100 for sure is.

Edited because I forgot to mention......I can tell zero difference in how soft the coarse spher 52100 vs how soft the fine spher O1 vs the "bladesmith spheroidizing" I do on any carbon steel. And I cut bevels with files. For me, the "coarse" spheroidizing is no improvement over fine spheroidizing or bladesmith spheroidizing. Which begs the question.....why do they do it? You have to normalize and then thermal cycle before hardening. Lots of time spent doing all that. Pretty much easier to just use O1 than say 52100. Performance is going to be very close to identical, and with O1 you don't need all the steps to get it to harden right. That's my only complaint with Aldo's steels.
 
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samuraistuart said:
Warren, if there is a way to figure out if steel is course spheroidized vs fine spheroidized, I am all ears. AFAIK, there is no way to tell, until you try to harden it and you get maybe 62 at best. The 95% spher vs 98% spher at the bottom of the page on his site means very little to me. O1, the Blue 2 he had, O7, CFV, A2, and the stainless steels, these usually always come fine spheroidized and don't need any special treatment. The spring steels and low allow carbon steels other than the ones mentioned....these should always be normalized and cycled, because they are probably coarse spheroidized, and as you mentioned the 52100 for sure is.

Edited because I forgot to mention......I can tell zero difference in how soft the coarse spher 52100 vs how soft the fine spher O1 vs the "bladesmith spheroidizing" I do on any carbon steel. And I cut bevels with files. For me, the "coarse" spheroidizing is no improvement over fine spheroidizing or bladesmith spheroidizing. Which begs the question.....why do they do it? You have to normalize and then thermal cycle before hardening. Lots of time spent doing all that. Pretty much easier to just use O1 than say 52100. Performance is going to be very close to identical, and with O1 you don't need all the steps to get it to harden right. That's my only complaint with Aldo's steels.
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Aldo might know from the mill spec. If he does, that should be included on the site or with the steel. Or, one could send a coupon to Kevin Cashen and have him check it out. :eek:

I have no way of knowing. I just do as you do and normalize/cycle basically everything. My customers know I take the heat treat seriously, and that is what my customer base is built on (and handle ergonomics.)

Course spheroidizing is the less expensive process, and is easily machined for industrial use. We worry about grain size a lot in knifemaking, but large carbides and larger grains aren't as important in industrial applications. In some cases larger carbides are desirable, as in bearings. Air hardening steels are taking over (have taken over) due to the mess and environmental factors in a lot of applications, from what I've read.
 
When I do 80CrV2, I forge it, thermal cycle twice (first time to non mag, second to dull red & magnetic)-I differential harden in canola and my 65hrc testing file skates right off the hardened edge with the above sequence...stock removal I add another short thermal cycle(and I only do SR in 1/8"). There's somethin' funny going on with your coupons.
Aldo's 80CrV2 will generally harden as is (not to max hardness, but a lot better than the OP's results).
 
anything hardens better than the OP's results... he's not very good at this yet apparently.


grinding down the back side of the coupons today... see if it is decarb causing all the fuss.
 
rustyrazor said:
anything hardens better than the OP's results... he's not very good at this yet apparently.


grinding down the back side of the coupons today... see if it is decarb causing all the fuss.
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This is an important part of the process. I bought my hardness tester the day after I had a knife returned with a rolled tip. If I'm going to take someone's money for a knife, it better be a real knife. We learn the most when something doesn't work as it was supposed to. Tracking down the cause of the problems is the best teacher we have.
 
i agree 100% ...just can't afford the tester yet, so it's a bit more labor intensive and costs a bit more in shipping back and fourth to one of my buddies with a tester to confirm and adjust.
 
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