810 vs 551

[Rawrzors]

Have you found that as the Cerakote has worn that it still provides some degree of corrosion resistance? In theory, I believe it should but theory doesn't always mean in-practice. I agree a true DLC would be much more desirable over virtually anything else short of a few boron coatings, which we will probably never seen on knife blades.

The cerakote is not a strong as you'd think from all the gun videos about it. its not scrape resistant enough, like dlc. Benchmade should really come out with a dlc version of the contego.
I cut tons of cardboard, and it pushed the cerakote off the edge slightly. Knife people are going to be the only ones that notice, but it's a thing. If you want some pictures, I'll post them later?

But thats why I don't like cerakote on my guns unless it's parkerized underneath. The cerakote, if scratched by metal, will scrape off, leaving bare metal showing. That's my problem with the aero precision ar lowers/uppers. When you mate them, they fit tightly. At the connection points, the cerakote scrapes off. This leaves bare metal exposed to the elements, which means you get rust. If you first parkerize, then cerakote, you can scrape the cerakote off and still have a parkerized area showing.

Cerakote is pretty nice, but its over hyped. DLC is better.

I don't know is parkerization effect the heat treat on blade steels however. Barring that, MY ideal knife coating would be parkerized with DLC on top. put that over the entire blade, tang and all, and you will never have to worry about your m4 steel rusting a bit.

hoppes gun cleaner works as great anti rust lube if you dont use your knife for food prep.

 

[pnsxyr]

The cerakote is not a strong as you'd think from all the gun videos about it. its not scrape resistant enough, like dlc. Benchmade should really come out with a dlc version of the contego.
I cut tons of cardboard, and it pushed the cerakote off the edge slightly. Knife people are going to be the only ones that notice, but it's a thing. If you want some pictures, I'll post them later?

But thats why I don't like cerakote on my guns unless it's parkerized underneath. The cerakote, if scratched by metal, will scrape off, leaving bare metal showing. That's my problem with the aero precision ar lowers/uppers. When you mate them, they fit tightly. At the connection points, the cerakote scrapes off. This leaves bare metal exposed to the elements, which means you get rust. If you first parkerize, then cerakote, you can scrape the cerakote off and still have a parkerized area showing.

Cerakote is pretty nice, but its over hyped. DLC is better.

I don't know is parkerization effect the heat treat on blade steels however. Barring that, MY ideal knife coating would be parkerized with DLC on top. put that over the entire blade, tang and all, and you will never have to worry about your m4 steel rusting a bit.

hoppes gun cleaner works as great anti rust lube if you dont use your knife for food prep.

I've honestly not used it enough on my BMs with it to see it wear significantly. On other steel parts I have used with Cerakote, even after it visually wears it still has given me some corrosion protection (mind you not as well as before).

I'd love to see either a true DLC, a boron carbide, or boron nitride coating (especially the latter two). When done right, I don't think anything comes close and do not understand why Benchmade has favored teflon, ceramic, graphite, and silicone coatings over DLCs. I tend to avoid coated blades when possible given how most aren't really doing the DLC and they seem to wear fast. I'd be willing to pay whatever premium for a very good DLC coating in a heartbeat though. I use to use Hoppes and always liked it but recently moved to Eezox for rust prevention and dry lubrication.

I agree with you on Cerakoting guns too, 100%. I prefer to avoid it if possible. If I am getting the finish redone, I'll stick with a nickel coating like the NP3 from Robar. When I worked at a range, I saw a lot of guns coated with Cerakote that after a while, frequent usage and cleaning started to wear it some and it looked cosmetically bad, especially if the Cerakote contrasted strongly with bare metal.




So could we could conclude a possible downside to the OP buying an 810 in M4 is that they don't really have the option for a satin finish, and getting a coating done from an outside company (like a DLC) is going to be more of a pain since the blade has already had Cerakote baked on?

 

[SOLEIL]

Even though my Cerakote has worn there are no problems with rust on the M4. And please don't get me wrong, I love the Contego, just not the Cerakote. Just treat it like any other carbon blade and it will be fine. Kershaw made a few of their knives with a boron carbide coating, I believe. I know it is boron but not sure of what type. I have a leek and a chive that are boron coated, blades and scales. The finish is like black mirrors and it is very durable. I don't use them much as I think they are both discontinued. I also would love to see more knives with boron finishes and also don't understand why Benchmade does not use DLC as the norm as some other knife companies do.

 

[pnsxyr]

My gripe over Benchmade not using a DLC has gotten a little more bitter since the price restructuring. I think now that one often has to pay near or full retail on Benchmade knives that my expectations are higher. I'm not sure if that is a bad attitude on my behalf or not, but I've been a Benchmade owner for over half my life, and while I think their current designs are fantastic, these higher prices come at a time when there are a ton of makers who are producing high-quality knives with more features for less money with increasingly better materials (ex: Kershaw is making a Blur in ELMAX steel [and with a BlackWash blade at that] for under $90 and Spyderco is making a folder in CPM-S110V also for about $100, and you simply can't ignore values like that). So to me, DLC is important when a company sells a ton of coated blades, and it can help great steels like M4 perform to their max. I don't mind the higher pricing, but I would like to see technology such as DLC become a standard because it has functional advantages. Also, that Mini Grip Gold Class (which is an awesome knife!) demonstrates Benchmade clearly has the ability to deliver a great DLC, so it's not a technology limitation as far as I can see.

I love the Contego like yourself even though it is a little big for my daily usage. I think it is one of the best designs on the market. But it is not a cheap knife and while Cerakote is't a 'bad' material by any means, it's not a DLC. The Contego is now priced similar to that of the ZT0301, which is using a multi-colored and true Tungsten DLC known for being robust...and for a consumer wanting a coated blade that holds up, the DLC is going to be favored by default and that isn't always a small detail. I mention the 0301 because of its popular DLC and with the new pricing, many of the flagship Benchmades are now in similar price ranges with many of the flagship ZTs.

When Benchmade shows off newer (and often better) technology on limited editions, that's awesome and I love their LEs. I probably own at least 30 or so LE Benchmades alone. But with the pricing of standard knives being higher, things like DLC or titanium liners I am moving in the direction of expecting based on other offerings at comparable pricing. Their designs are still fantastic, their knives are great, I love them as a company, I think they respond really well to adding new features/models based on customer feedback, but things such as the lack of DLC options are not insignificant.

While I did not mean to go so off topic, if Benchmade reads this forum, the one thing I hope they take away from our discussion is consideration on integrating a good DLC or the practically-diamond-level-hard boron nitride coating on more of their production models. It's not just a strong selling point, but a performance advantage and it is clearly something a huge bulk of customers want and/or will benefit from.

 

[Rawrzors]

I've honestly not used it enough on my BMs with it to see it wear significantly. On other steel parts I have used with Cerakote, even after it visually wears it still has given me some corrosion protection (mind you not as well as before).

I'd love to see either a true DLC, a boron carbide, or boron nitride coating (especially the latter two). When done right, I don't think anything comes close and do not understand why Benchmade has favored teflon, ceramic, graphite, and silicone coatings over DLCs. I tend to avoid coated blades when possible given how most aren't really doing the DLC and they seem to wear fast. I'd be willing to pay whatever premium for a very good DLC coating in a heartbeat though. I use to use Hoppes and always liked it but recently moved to Eezox for rust prevention and dry lubrication.

I agree with you on Cerakoting guns too, 100%. I prefer to avoid it if possible. If I am getting the finish redone, I'll stick with a nickel coating like the NP3 from Robar. When I worked at a range, I saw a lot of guns coated with Cerakote that after a while, frequent usage and cleaning started to wear it some and it looked cosmetically bad, especially if the Cerakote contrasted strongly with bare metal.




So could we could conclude a possible downside to the OP buying an 810 in M4 is that they don't really have the option for a satin finish, and getting a coating done from an outside company (like a DLC) is going to be more of a pain since the blade has already had Cerakote baked on?

i know the 810 has a satin cerakote option. and i think with m4 at least, because it isnt a stainless steel, it should have a coating. my problem is that it doesnt have a coating over the tang part that rides on the axis lock.

if he doesnt like black knifes, which it seems that he does from his two picks, he could go ith the grey cerakote.

he could take the blade off and polish off the cerakote with a dremel, though it would be a massssssiiiivee pain. it doesnt really like to come off.

 

[Rawrzors]

My gripe over Benchmade not using a DLC has gotten a little more bitter since the price restructuring. I think now that one often has to pay near or full retail on Benchmade knives that my expectations are higher. I'm not sure if that is a bad attitude on my behalf or not, but I've been a Benchmade owner for over half my life, and while I think their current designs are fantastic, these higher prices come at a time when there are a ton of makers who are producing high-quality knives with more features for less money with increasingly better materials (ex: Kershaw is making a Blur in ELMAX steel [and with a BlackWash blade at that] for under $90 and Spyderco is making a folder in CPM-S110V also for about $100, and you simply can't ignore values like that). So to me, DLC is important when a company sells a ton of coated blades, and it can help great steels like M4 perform to their max. I don't mind the higher pricing, but I would like to see technology such as DLC become a standard because it has functional advantages. Also, that Mini Grip Gold Class (which is an awesome knife!) demonstrates Benchmade clearly has the ability to deliver a great DLC, so it's not a technology limitation as far as I can see.

I love the Contego like yourself even though it is a little big for my daily usage. I think it is one of the best designs on the market. But it is not a cheap knife and while Cerakote is't a 'bad' material by any means, it's not a DLC. The Contego is now priced similar to that of the ZT0301, which is using a multi-colored and true Tungsten DLC known for being robust...and for a consumer wanting a coated blade that holds up, the DLC is going to be favored by default and that isn't always a small detail. I mention the 0301 because of its popular DLC and with the new pricing, many of the flagship Benchmades are now in similar price ranges with many of the flagship ZTs.

When Benchmade shows off newer (and often better) technology on limited editions, that's awesome and I love their LEs. I probably own at least 30 or so LE Benchmades alone. But with the pricing of standard knives being higher, things like DLC or titanium liners I am moving in the direction of expecting based on other offerings at comparable pricing. Their designs are still fantastic, their knives are great, I love them as a company, I think they respond really well to adding new features/models based on customer feedback, but things such as the lack of DLC options are not insignificant.

While I did not mean to go so off topic, if Benchmade reads this forum, the one thing I hope they take away from our discussion is consideration on integrating a good DLC or the practically-diamond-level-hard boron nitride coating on more of their production models. It's not just a strong selling point, but a performance advantage and it is clearly something a huge bulk of customers want and/or will benefit from.

para2 comes with alot of the same features as the benchmade and very good steel as well. admittedly not as good as m4, but very good still. s30v is no joke. the dlc on the para2 is from what ive seen, incredible. and for 120$