8670 in Damascus.

Willie71

Willie71

Warren J. Krywko
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Messages
12,214
i’m prepping steel to weld this weekend, and was thinking about a super tough combo to make hatchets or choppers out of. From what I’ve read, 8670 does not have enough nickel for the shiny layer in a billet, but is it still dark enough to use with 15n20 as the dark layer? If not, I might try alternating layers of 8670, 15n20, and 80crv2. This is a background project with the main goal of doing W2/15n20, CFV/15n20, and 26c3/15n20, mostly for kitchen knives.

I’ll do a few combos of the 8670, 80crv2, and 15n20 in different layer combos, and test etch to see how it looks.
 
Some may said the chromium and nickel in 8670 will prevent it from get a good contrast with 15n20 but I have seen some maker do 5160/15n20 combo with good contrast (CAS)

But 8670 seems to require higher austenitizing temp don't know if this will be a problem.
 
shqxk said:
Some may said the chromium and nickel in 8670 will prevent it from get a good contrast with 15n20 but I have seen some maker do 5160/15n20 combo with good contrast (CAS)

But 8670 seems to require higher austenitizing temp don't know if this will be a problem.
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I’ve been thinking about that. Probably better with 52100 or 80crv2.

I haven’t done a lot of damascus, just as few hand hammered billets a few years back. I have a press (log splitter) here for a few weeks, so i’m Going to take advantage of it.
 
Better choose two steel with somewhat the same austenizing temp or you may run into issues with hardness or grain growth.
 
I recommend you stick with 1084 and 15n20. Work on your welding and patterning first. 8670 will not have the best contrast either. Very few buy a damascus knife for performance, looks is number one. Steels with higher carbon and Mn get darker when etched. Steels with Cr, Ni, and moly, resist etching.

The more alloys you use at one time, the harder it is to get a clean etch. Damascus can be frustrating, keep things simple for a while. And no stupid low layer stuff, it’s not damascus, it’s lazy.

Hoss
 
DevinT said:
I recommend you stick with 1084 and 15n20. Work on your welding and patterning first. 8670 will not have the best contrast either. Very few buy a damascus knife for performance, looks is number one. Steels with higher carbon and Mn get darker when etched. Steels with Cr, Ni, and moly, resist etching.

The more alloys you use at one time, the harder it is to get a clean etch. Damascus can be frustrating, keep things simple for a while. And no stupid low layer stuff, it’s not damascus, it’s lazy.

Hoss
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Thanks for the advice. REALLY appreciated. My main project is W2/15n20. If that turns out well, I’ll be thrilled. I’m aiming for 300 layers, and doing a simple ladder pattern (grind/bump). I did twist before, and it turned out, but I had a couple small inclusions. Those were done with hammer and anvil though. I want to be sure my kitchen knives perform at least as well as a monosteel blade. I’ll have to order some 1084. I’m currently out.

As I gain experience, I want to be able to make a performance Damascus, like z-wear/z-tuff. I’m sure the learning curve will be steep. From what i’ve gleaned, a surface grinder is almost essential to prep the pieces. I don’t have one. I’m going to try a simple san Mai while I have the forge running. I will try z-wear/440b, as I have some end cuts about the right size.
 
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DevinT said:
I recommend you stick with 1084 and 15n20. Work on your welding and patterning first. 8670 will not have the best contrast either. Very few buy a damascus knife for performance, looks is number one. Steels with higher carbon and Mn get darker when etched. Steels with Cr, Ni, and moly, resist etching.

The more alloys you use at one time, the harder it is to get a clean etch. Damascus can be frustrating, keep things simple for a while. And no stupid low layer stuff, it’s not damascus, it’s lazy.

Hoss
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" And no stupid low layer stuff"

This part is just pure gold :D:D:thumbsup: totally agreed! when I see new makers came up with low layer thing just can't help thinking why they have such a bad taste.
 
Back in the late 70’s, a few makers said you must have 512 layers for good damascus. There was a lot of random pattern damascus at the time.

Twist should have 1/2 the layers as ladder. You can get a good look for most simple patterns using between 100 and 200 layers. Ratio between dark and light layers will also affect how things look.

It’s not damascus when you draw out a billet of 9-21 layers and leave it random or a lazy twist. Just looks dumb to me. Have some self respect people.

Hoss
 
That's around what I was thinking too but I just wanted to know what somebody that has forgotten more about Damascus then I even know about it thought
 
DevinT said:
Back in the late 70’s, a few makers said you must have 512 layers for good damascus. There was a lot of random pattern damascus at the time.

Twist should have 1/2 the layers as ladder. You can get a good look for most simple patterns using between 100 and 200 layers. Ratio between dark and light layers will also affect how things look.

It’s not damascus when you draw out a billet of 9-21 layers and leave it random or a lazy twist. Just looks dumb to me. Have some self respect people.

Hoss
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If you are going to go through the effort of doing this, two to three more stack/weld cycles isn’t that much more work.
 
Warren, if it works for you, I have 4- 12” x 1.5” x 0.125” 1084 bars that I don’t have any plans to use.
 
So I welded up a W2/15n20 billet last night, and a W2/mild steel san Mai. Went reasonably straight forward. I’ll be drawing out the billets today, once I get the fitting for my 100lbs tank.
 
So, with the W2 billets, i’m At 36 layers each now. I started with 9 layers. 2”x5”, 1/4” W2, and double 0.070” 15n20. Drew them out, cut into four pieces, and ground everything smooth, stacked and welded again. Now drawing them out for another stack.
 
While I totally respect ya'll folks with opinions of low layer count Damascus, I like the looks of some of the low layer count "Pattern" welded blades. When you've got power hammers and press, high layer count is easy, but when it's "arm 'n hammer" power, my old arm (and shoulder) get worn out pretty quick.
 
DevinT said:
Back in the late 70’s, a few makers said you must have 512 layers for good damascus. There was a lot of random pattern damascus at the time.

Twist should have 1/2 the layers as ladder. You can get a good look for most simple patterns using between 100 and 200 layers. Ratio between dark and light layers will also affect how things look.

It’s not damascus when you draw out a billet of 9-21 layers and leave it random or a lazy twist. Just looks dumb to me. Have some self respect people.

Hoss
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These looks dumb? Wish someone would’ve spoke up sooner, it could of saved me a time of time ;)
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