91mm vs 93mm wood processsing ...surprising outcome

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Jun 30, 2017
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I was experimenting today testing a Vic Farmer vs a Tinker for debarking and whittling some dry smallish branches to see which I liked better.

Before I went out both knives were dull and would not cut paper so I sharpened them using the tiny Vic field sharpener until each one would cut the same piece of paper. The stone is fairly course but it got the job done for the purposes of this test. I probably spent the same amount of time on each knife checking for any burrs/removing as needed.

The wood was fairly dry and needed a lot of pressure to whittle out a decent sized chunk. I tested both on the same piece of wood and the Tinker outperformed the farmer and here is why:

1. When whittling hard you normally use the section of knife closer to the tang for more power. On the Farmer due to the thicker blade stock at the base, the angle of the grind becomes considerably wider making it harder to pull through. The 91mm Tinker does not have such a drastic widening of blade stock so it remains much thinner near the processing area. The Farmer has slightly more belly but that benefit is outweighed by the thickening of the blade stock.

2. I love the Alox scales for durability and looks but after hard whittling in this manner for a while the dimpling on the Alox became noticeable. I could feel them digging into my palms and it became slightly uncomfortable. Also the saw on the farmer became a hot spot underneath the little finger causing some reddening. The smooth cellidor on the tinker felt much smoother in the palm and there was no hot spot due to a lack of a saw. I think this hotspot would be there on the Hiker and Camper too and maybe a 91mm with corkscrew may cause uncomfort in the palm.

I pushed both knives hard. I was interested to see how hard the Tinker could be pushed and it performed well. Its lightness does not seem to suggest great strength but everytime I tried to bite off a bigger piece than it could handle it just stopped in the wood with nothing giving way. Opened and closed perfectly afterwards.

I had no worries about pushing the Farmer hard but it required more strength than the Tinker to bite off a big piece. It was also more uncomfortable to work with as described above so the winner is the Tinker.

Conclusion: The farmer is a great knife, very tough and has a useful saw and awl but it did not perform as well as the 91mm cellidor blade and was not as comfortable. If I was going to take a SAK into the woods for bushcraft duties I would take a Hiker for the comfortable scales, easier blade to work with and the useful saw. It also has a second blade which is always useful.
 
Interesting, I've always felt that the 91/84 mm SAKs were better slicers than the 93 mm Alox models and an added plus is the pen blade.
 
You’ve given the reason in the OP as to why the thinner blade stock of the 91mm models is better at fine whittling and fine slicing than the thicker blade stock of the Alox 93mm models; I’ve just reiterated it. :)

That having been said, I can’t think of any bushcraft task where the 93mm would not be usable whereas the 91mm would. But who cares? They are both great little knives. :thumbsup:
 
Interesting post. I do and always have preferred cellidor saks to alox models. One of the reasons a lot of people prefer alox is because they are tougher, and I agree they are. However ive yet break a cellidor model and i have pushed them pretty hard. Both are great, something for everyone.
 
ive yet break a cellidor model and i have pushed them pretty hard
The cellidor models are surprisingly tough for their weight. The Tinker is lightweight but very capable under hard use.

I would be interested to experiment with an 85mm Delemont blade vs the 91mm. Like NMpops said they are slightly thinner than the 91mm and have more belly, I suspect they will perform better in the same test.
 
Congratulations on discovering that thicker isn't better for cutting tools. One down, seven billion to go.
It is not so easy to draw such a conclusion. The Farmer has more belly than the 91mm line so this could compensate for the extra thickness. However the results showed different.

Also it became obvious while testing that the Farmer was less comfortable in the hand than the Tinker under hard use due to the texturing of the Alox and the hot spot created by the saw. This conclusion was not obvious at first and could not be assumed without testing.

Anyone can state the obvious after the fact. I look forward to reading the conclusions of your experiments in the future.
 
Sorry. I've been whittling for about fifty years now, and I figured out that thinner blades cut better than thick ones when I was ten years old. I'm really, really tired of all the thick-edged blades on the market today, and especially all the "hard use" hype that gets kicked around. Probably time to take a long vacation from the forums.
 
Sorry. I've been whittling for about fifty years now, and I figured out that thinner blades cut better than thick ones when I was ten years old. I'm really, really tired of all the thick-edged blades on the market today, and especially all the "hard use" hype that gets kicked around. Probably time to take a long vacation from the forums.

No worries I totally get where you're coming from. A thinner blade requires much less force at whittling compared to some of the thick modern knives that seem to be popular today. I love my opinel, I think it is up there as one of the 'Hall of fame' designs with regard to knife history. So great in the pocket, single one-piece bolster design making it much tougher than it gets credit for, and very inexpensive ... oh and it whittles extremely well!!

I don't think you should let a modern fashion put you off this forum. Those who actually whittle will appreciate the benefits of a thinner knife and I am interested in what they have to say :D
 
So what was the surprising outcome?

Congratulations on discovering that thicker isn't better for cutting tools. One down, seven billion to go.

Not to get off multi-tools but, my favorite knife and "edc" for ~ ten years has been a modern offering from Spyderco. The Centofante III. It's blade measures 2mm at the spine. Just .25mm wider than an Opinel #08 and thinner than the Vic Farmer blade is at its base.

No need for a vacation. You're a lot less alone than you think. ;)
 
No worries I totally get where you're coming from. A thinner blade requires much less force at whittling compared to some of the thick modern knives that seem to be popular today. I love my opinel, I think it is up there as one of the 'Hall of fame' designs with regard to knife history. So great in the pocket, single one-piece bolster design making it much tougher than it gets credit for, and very inexpensive ... oh and it whittles extremely well!!

I don't think you should let a modern fashion put you off this forum. Those who actually whittle will appreciate the benefits of a thinner knife and I am interested in what they have to say :D

Just a quick question; what size Opinel do you like, and carbon or stainless?
 
Just a quick question; what size Opinel do you like, and carbon or stainless?
20180305_114442.jpg


I prefer the No.8 with the handle sanded down. Just makes it more pocket friendly and gets rid of the high kick which I found a pain in use. No.9 is great also for outdoors use but I find a bit big in the pocket.

20180305_114409_001.jpg


I only have it in carbon and its a breeze to get sharp. I like the patina effect too and don't notice any nasty tastes with food, maybe i am just lucky. I can't comment on stainless because I don't have one but I would like to pick one up. The better edge retention and lack of maintenance is quute appealing.

20180305_115106.jpg


Heres a pic of the Farmer, Tinker and Opinel No.8 for blade thickness comparison.

20180305_115146.jpg

Here's a pic of the belly on each. Notice the larger belly on the Farmer compared to the 91mm blade. I thought this would help but it seems like you have to go much deeper on belly to compensate for small increases on thickness/stock. It would be interesting to know what the ratio is .... this is beyond me
 
Sorry. I've been whittling for about fifty years now, and I figured out that thinner blades cut better than thick ones when I was ten years old. I'm really, really tired of all the thick-edged blades on the market today, and especially all the "hard use" hype that gets kicked around. Probably time to take a long vacation from the forums.

Yeah, I know how ya feel. I've been slowly reducing my time on forums as they seem so much hype and feed for BS. I believe Jeff Randall said it best when he stated in an interview that 98% of the knife market is BS.

"Hard Use"?

What hard use are the new generation of knife nuts doing inter office cubicles that require a knife with a thick blade and a lock that you can hang a Brinks armored car from? The men who made their living working wittier hands during the Great Depression and then going off to fight a world war somehow got by using Camillus stockmen and jhacks, Remington Barlow's and pen knives, with some Ulster and Schrade's thrown in. All with nice thin blades that do what a knife is designed for; cut.

Speaking of Remington Barlow's, Texas Ranger Frank Hamer, a long time serving ranger and tracker of dangerous criminals including Bonnie and Clyde, went about his duties with a Colt .45 and a Remington Barlow.


Well used by the look of it!

A knife is a cutting tool. Thin is always better to do what it is suppose to do, in the real world. If you plan on fighting Chinese paratroopers or playing Rambo, maybe another knife is in order.
 
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Yeah, I know how ya feel. I've been slowly reducing my time on forums as they seem so much hype and feed for BS. I believe Jeff Randall said it best when he stated in an interview that 98% of the knife market is BS.

"Hard Use"?

What hard use are the new generation of knife nuts doing inter office cubicles that require a knife with a thick blade and a lock that you can hang a Brinks armored car from? The men who made their living working wittier hands during the Great Depression and then going off to fight a world war somehow got by using Camillus stockmen and jhacks, Remington Barlow's and pen knives, with some Ulster and Schrade's thrown in. All with nice thin blades that do what a knife is designed for; cut.

Speaking of Remington Barlow's, Texas Ranger Frank Hamer, a long time serving ranger and tracker of dangerous criminals including Bonnie and Clyde, went about his duties with a Colt .45 and a Remington Barlow.


Well used by the look of it!

A knife is a cutting tool. Thin is always better to do what it is suppose to do, in the real world. If you plan on fighting Chinese paratroopers or playing Rambo, maybe another knife is in order.

:thumbsup::cool: The Texas Ranger Museum. I've been there and have plenty of photos. I did not get a photo of that knife.

My grandfather was born in 1919, carried a Case 6208 and never needed more.

Thanks for the photos NF. I had a Vic Cadet in black Alox that I loved to carry. It didn't return from a trip once. I suspect someone in the TSA needed it more than I did. I've been on the fence about replacing it. I was also leaning toward a Recruit as a replacement. I think you've swayed me. Recruit it is. :thumbsup:
 
:thumbsup::cool: The Texas Ranger Museum. I've been there and have plenty of photos. I did not get a photo of that knife.

My grandfather was born in 1919, carried a Case 6208 and never needed more.

Thanks for the photos NF. I had a Vic Cadet in black Alox that I loved to carry. It didn't return from a trip once. I suspect someone in the TSA needed it more than I did. I've been on the fence about replacing it. I was also leaning toward a Recruit as a replacement. I think you've swayed me. Recruit it is. :thumbsup:
The recruit is a very fine etc pocket knife. It gives great utility per ounce, is low cost enough that it is almost a disposable tool. In fact, every time we do fly to Key West every other year for the family reunion/vacation, I send a recruit to myself where we stay, so I annoy sans pocket knife for the week. The recruit cuts bait, opens cold beers, deals with food stuff we cook on the grill on the guest house patio. When we fly out I gift it off to who ever is around. The geast house handyman, the shuttle van driver to the airport, whoever. They always exclaim great joy at the recognizable Swiss cross and red handle.

Recruits are great!
 
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Thanks for the photos NF. I had a Vic Cadet in black Alox that I loved to carry. It didn't return from a trip once. I suspect someone in the TSA needed it more than I did. I've been on the fence about replacing it. I was also leaning toward a Recruit as a replacement. I think you've swayed me. Recruit it is. :thumbsup:

Hmm, I have a suspicion that the 84mm Recruit and Cadet will share the same blade! Maybe someone else can confirm this? That being said I would personally choose the recruit for the comfy scales and toothpick/tweezers. Being slightly wider too will allow for a better grip :thumbsup:
 
Hmm, I have a suspicion that the 84mm Recruit and Cadet will share the same blade! Maybe someone else can confirm this? That being said I would personally choose the recruit for the comfy scales and toothpick/tweezers. Being slightly wider too will allow for a better grip :thumbsup:
Last I checked, the main blades (and other tools) on my Recruit and Cadet were identical in thickness. It's only on the 'standard-sized' Alox like the Pioneer/Farmer, and 'standard-sized' cellidors like the Spartan/Tinker that the Alox have a thicker blade and tools.

Jim
 
Hmm, I have a suspicion that the 84mm Recruit and Cadet will share the same blade! Maybe someone else can confirm this? That being said I would personally choose the recruit for the comfy scales and toothpick/tweezers. Being slightly wider too will allow for a better grip :thumbsup:

The smooth handles is what I was refering to. I have a Farmer and a Wenger Soldier in Alox and I agree, they can be less comfortable than the Celidor.

Anyway, thanks to this thread, I did some shopping when I got home from work with a gift card that had been burning a hole in my pocket. I found the Recruit in black for $18 and, because I couldn't leave the site when I should have, I found the Spartan in black on sale for $15. That gets me both for only $2 more than the alox Cadet that I had in my cart.

I wasn't going to buy any knives this year and have bought three this week :(. I was doing so well. Made it all the way to March.:D
 
The smooth handles is what I was refering to. I have a Farmer and a Wenger Soldier in Alox and I agree, they can be less comfortable than the Celidor.

Anyway, thanks to this thread, I did some shopping when I got home from work with a gift card that had been burning a hole in my pocket. I found the Recruit in black for $18 and, because I couldn't leave the site when I should have, I found the Spartan in black on sale for $15. That gets me both for only $2 more than the alox Cadet that I had in my cart.

I wasn't going to buy any knives this year and have bought three this week :(. I was doing so well. Made it all the way to March.:D
I, too, recently had a Vic splurge. I’m not yet ready to confess. :oops:
 
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