'98 (and some '99) "Old Style" Commanders

John Hollister

John Hollister

Joined
Feb 3, 1999
Messages
3,180
Guys

Some observations.

First off, to streamline this posting, I propose a new term for the different generations on Commanders. As I dubbed the "Old" and "New" Styles, I hear by change it to "First Generation" and "Second Generation". Sounds so much more professional, doesn't it?
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It seems to me that the First Generation Commanders have taken on a life of their own. We may be seeing the birth of the first cult status EKI Production knife.

I've received several emails in the last three days asking among other things, what I thought a First Generation Commander would go for on the secondary market.

"Secondary market for a production knife?!"

Well . . . I . . well . . . . it does make one think. There are a limited number of them (supply is low) and there are people looking for them (aka demand). That's the makings for a Secondary Market alright.

I bring this out publicly only because I have just about given up on getting another here on-line. I think if people are going to find them, they will have to hunt local Gun/Knife shows and Gun/Knife shops.

What exactly separated a "First Generation" Commander from a "Second Generation" Commander.

The First Generation Commanders bodies are thicker. The G10 scales and Ti liners are noticeably thinner on Second Gen Commanders.

I measured the bodies of a few Emersons I had on hand and came up with these numbers:

.49 CQC7B Waved
.49 Second Generation Commander
.51 SOCFK
.51 SARK
.55 First Generation Commander
.55 ES1-M
.56 Commander Proto

The thickness for the SOCFK and SARK kind of surprised me, I thought they would be the same as the CQC7B and Second Gen Commander It was interesting also that the Proto Commander was thickest of them all, even thicker then an ES1-M.

The blades and liners of the First Generation Commanders were water cut, as opposed to the current laser cutting. Really a small detail, but I prefer the "rounder" lines to the precision, laser cut corners.

A secondary detent arm was cut into the liner opposite the liner that formed the lock on Second Generation Commanders.

On the spine of the Second Generation body, just shy of the thumb ramp, the liners are serrated. This change I like. (This and the secondary detent are the easiest ways to tell a First Generation from a Second Generation)

Up until very recently, EKI was grinding the tip of the Second Generation blades at an angle. This allowed the blade to retain it's thickness almost all the way out to the tip. recently EKI went back to the First Generation blade grind.

Here is some more information I've been giving out about the First Generation Commanders. None of it is solid or at this time, 100% verifiable.

1. My understanding is that the first 1000 Commanders were serialized.

2. The transition to Second Generation was made sometime in '99. All '98 Commanders are First Generation, some '99s are Second Generation.

3. I have never seen a '99 with a serial number and have never seen a '98 without one.

4. All the Satin Commanders I have seen from '98 are real Satin blades (uncoated). All these have had serial numbers under 200.

5. Most of the '98 Commanders are plain edged.

Again, this information is sketchy at best. Based solely on my observations I'm no expert, just a consumer and collector.

If anyone has better or different information, let's hear it. We all can learn something here.

hth

John

[This message has been edited by John Hollister (edited 01-03-2001).]
 
As always, thanks for the great info and pix, John. THIS Commander fan has learned alot from you in the short time that I've been around the Emerson Forum. Soooooo, what DO you think a first generation Commander is worth on the secondary market? I want one. Actually, I just wish someone would make aftermarket first generation scales for second generation Commanders.

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Eric
"The best toys are the ones that you can put an eye out with."
 
John, which generation has the secondary detent on the opposite liner and serrations on the liners behind the thumb ramp? I think you're saying it's the second generation but just needed to make sure I read your post right.

Also, your picture of the thumb ramps side-by-side seem to show that one has 8 ridges while the other has only 7. It may be my bad eyes but could you check it out to satisfy my curiosity? Thanks. Oh btw, if they do have different number of ridges--which is which? Thanks again.

I have a '99 plain edge with black coating and wondered which generation it belonged to after reading the related posts.
 
Eric, Thank you Sir.

Toothed, I should have made that more clear. I will correct it. The serrated liners on the spine and the secondary detent are indeed Second Generation features. The First Gen did not have these.

The thumb ramp you pointed out is the clearest indicator of Water versus Laser cutting. Notice the thumb ramp on the top (Second Generation), it's cut and squared perfect (laser). The one on the bottom is more rounded and flows, that's from the water cutting.

John
 
John

Great info. But my 99 CN Commander is serial #120. And my three 2000 Commanders have no serial numbers. Is it on the CN Commanders have numbers???

Liong

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Follow The Path of Fantasies.
 
Liong

The CN sets had their own serial numbers. The sets consisted of a CN Commander and a CN CQC7B both serialized the same. There were 500 sets and the serial numbers were prefaced with "CN". These were not in the original serialized bunch.

Here is an example.

There are also some serialized 2000 Green-T Commanders, again, their serialized in their own group and were Second Generation. (Not to be confused with the Green-T "Mil-Spec" Commanders that were '99 First Generation and not serialized)

Jees, this can get confusing.
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I just bought a Commander on eBay. The guy didn't specify what year it was (I have a feeling he's not as much of a knife knutt as we are...)
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I'll let you guys know (or, rather, I'll come back here, begging John to answer silly questions about it) when it arrives. Maybe it'll even be a First Gen...

Chris
 
Thanks for the info John. Shucks, I guess I got one of the second generation '99 Commanders.
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I can't complain about its performance, however, since its blade is centered; its lock is tight; it snaps open on demand; and it can cut. Personally, I can't understand some of the posts criticizing EK for quality control problems. Maybe I'm lucky and maybe my Commander was made "early enough"?
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Let me say right off the bat that there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with Second Generation Commanders. A very large majority of Commander owners out there own Second Generation Commanders and are very pleased with them. I own Second Generation Commanders too.

As with any consumer product, changes will be made. Sometimes changes are made for economic reasons, sometimes due to consumer input, Safety, Market, on and on. Change happens.

I happen to prefer the older, thicker bodies. I'm sure EKI got calls and letters complaining that the Commanders were too thick.

A friend thinks Commanders are too big, personally, I would like to see a larger Production version.

To each their own.

If you have a have a First or Second Gen Commander, use it, enjoy it. You own a great knife. If you don't own a Commander . . . you don't know what your missing!
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John
 
John,

I was at the Indy 1500 gun show and found a first generation "99" Commander. It is .55 inches thick, does not have the secondary detent arm, but does have the 1st gen style grind on the tip. It does have the laser cut liners with serrations. It also has all slotted screws, no phillips heads, even in the pocket clip. I guess it is kind of a transitional model. I got it new in the box for $140.


Lynn
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[This message has been edited by LLF (edited 01-22-2001).]
 
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