A Bad Guy with a Knife

[Henry Beige]

I don’t know the knife laws in Minnesota, and pay them no heed. More germane to me are employers’ regulations regarding knife carry.

A shool bus company I drive for echoes school rules: “No knives or weapons.” It seems to be a custom honored more in the breach than the observance, as supervisors and managers have often seen my knives, borrowed them, and showed me their new acquisitions. I disregard the rule, and routinely carry several small knives. The only comment has been “better keep that out of sight “.

A transit authority for which I drive bars their drivers from carrying “weapons”, which include any knife with a blade over 3” in length. My knives are not weapons, by my definition or theirs, so, no problem. They require hammers as part of our personal tool kit, for checking tires. I have heard discussion of hammers’ potential as defensive weapons, but have never heard of a transit operator actually using a hammer for that purpose. Many drivers carry concealed guns against regulation, but I have never heard of one used by a driver on the bus.

Assaults on drivers are not uncommon, but so far, I have had pretty good luck relying on interpersonal skills.

 

[mabrowns]

I don’t know the knife laws in Minnesota, and pay them no heed. More germane to me are employers’ regulations regarding knife carry.

A shool bus company I drive for echoes school rules: “No knives or weapons.” It seems to be a custom honored more in the breach than the observance, as supervisors and managers have often seen my knives, borrowed them, and showed me their new acquisitions. I disregard the rule, and routinely carry several small knives. The only comment has been “better keep that out of sight “.

A transit authority for which I drive bars their drivers from carrying “weapons”, which include any knife with a blade over 3” in length. My knives are not weapons, by my definition or theirs, so, no problem. They require hammers as part of our personal tool kit, for checking tires. I have heard discussion of hammers’ potential as defensive weapons, but have never heard of a transit operator actually using a hammer for that purpose. Many drivers carry concealed guns against regulation, but I have never heard of one used by a driver on the bus.

Assaults on drivers are not uncommon, but so far, I have had pretty good luck relying on interpersonal skills.

How about a tire thumper?

 

[sabre cat]

I'm in the wine country of Northern California. For me, the biggest issue is not the knife laws but what the average person around here believes is the law. Combine that with their reaction to someone using a knife in public and you can have some problems. The last thing I need is someone overreacting to my use of a knife and then having to explain myself to our local LEOs.

I carry what I want. Everything I own is legal but, I do try to carry based upon how I've dressed and my activities for the day. Plus, I tend to buy conservative knives. I avoid tactical knives with black blades, butterfly knives, switchblades (even when legal), and assisted opening knives. Odd or unusual blade shapes are also avoided. Anything with a skull is a no-go with me. The same holds true for anything that could be considered offensive based upon its name or model designation. This means no Cold Steel. Zero Tolerance is questionable.

 

[bdmicarta]

How do knife laws affect your decision to carry a knife and which one to carry?

I had to go through Boston on a trip last year and picked the cheapest POS knife I own that is within their laws and carried it with me. Where I live my preferred knives are completely legal and I almost never travel anwhere that they wouldn't be so I don't have to worry about it. Anytime I travel to a new location I do check the laws first just to be safe.

 

[sabre cat]

I do have a few folder options just in case I travel:

Cutco folder, model 1891, the blade is less than 3 inches.
Victorinox Recruit, two and a half inch blade.
Some other Vic SAK. Not really sure what model. Very small. Useless, IMHO.

Out of these, the Recruit is what I would probably choose. Although, I really would be more inclined to purchase something once I am at my destination.

 

[ArchVV]

Having lived in TX for much of the last decade, I took to not giving a flying fig about which knife I carried.

 

[KVT]

I carry what I want, where I want.

 

[shovelhead69]

Great thread, I live in Ct. knife laws are surprisingly good considering how uptight this state is. I worked in EMS for several years and carried a auto most of the time when I did. The law in Ct. is anything under 4" is legal unless automatic then it must be under 2" unless you work in EMS or law inforcement. I tend to carry folders between 3-4" depending on the day and where I'm going and what's in my rotation along with a small fixed attached to my boot a Folts minimilast. When I travel I always read up on local laws I prefer to avoid potential hassles with law enforcement. I ride a Harley and am heavily tattoo sometimes that draws attention of law enforcement. NYC is one of the worst places I travel as far as knife laws I read the law and it seams ridiculous. So my home state isn't a bad place for a knife nut to be able to carry what he likes, I just don't get the auto laws when a 4" fixed blade is and my flippers are just as quick as my autos thanks to bearings and phosphor bronze washers so...

 

[DB_Cruiser]

New York resident here. Where I live upstate, most anything that I would carry is legal and most folks around here don't bat an eye about a knife on a belt or a pocket clip being visible. I can carry open or concealed where I live.
I work in NYC, however, so I stick to slip joint knives, friction folders or Opinels 3" or less in length (legal limit is 4" and I like to be well within that) when go to work. I also carry a Mora Eldris often in the city. If a knife I intend to carry in NYC has a pocket clip, I remove it. A few weeks ago, I picked up a Three Rivers Atlas and it has been in my pocket almost every day I've gone to the city since (it's really perfect for New York City). But as long as I can conceal it and it is not an automatic locking knife that could fail the "gravity" test AND it is under 4" in length, my understanding is that I can carry it in the city. That means no lock backs, liner locks, frame locks or assisted knives.
So there are knives that I buy which must conform to what is legal to carry in the city if I want it for work. Then a totally different set of requirements (really, just a question of what I like or need) for the ones I use on my property or around town where I live. It doesn't really bother me though. I do not carry any knives anywhere with the idea that I could or would use them for self defense. They are strictly tools for a specific task. The restrictions of NYC have actually gotten me looking at some really interesting knives I might not have otherwise found. And I can carry just about anything a sensible person could want to carry around my home and town upstate. But with that said, there is no way on this green Earth that I would EVER live in NYC. I only go there for my fistfull of dollars.

 

[Reitwagen]

Having lived in TX for much of the last decade, I took to not giving a flying fig about which knife I carried.

Knife laws have sure improved. Some time ago in Texas, I had a cop bend a plastic ruler along the edge of my Buck 110, trying to attain a measurement over 5 inches so he could charge me with a weapon violation.

 

[pinnah]

Knife laws have sure improved. Some time ago in Texas, I had a cop bend a plastic ruler along the edge of my Buck 110, trying to attain a measurement over 5 inches so he could charge me with a weapon violation.

This says more about how laws are used by cops than it does about laws, per se.

 

[jaseman]

Pennsylvania in general(excluding Philly) has pretty lax knife laws, but they are a bit archaic. No autos, no daggers, most of you know the usual exceptions. I don’t usually walk around with a 14” blade on my belt, but I don’t limit what manual folders I carry at all. If I’m traveling, I try to carry something a bit inconspicuous like a slipjoint or small folder, though that’s not always the case.

I also live in a rural area so it’s not uncommon to see someone carrying a 119 or even a 1911 on their belt. No one seems to care about my 3.5” folder, cops included.

With the major difference being one is obviously illegal and dangerous but the other can be neither.

I'll echo what was said above about PA, we have generally very good knife laws, gun laws as well. The exception is philly. I can carry my pistol concealed (ccw) but ironically can't carry a vic classic philly. It's a never enforced crime unless you're doing something else illegal. On the rare instances I travel to philly I completely ignore the knife laws, as for me, a law abiding citizen, they would not be enforced. Luckily I rarely got to philly. I dislike the place very much.

In general, I advise people to follow their local knife laws. In the least, get to know the local temperature if you choose to violate the norms or laws of where you are. At the bare minimum know the laws or rules of the places you go.

Number one though, don't support places with crap laws by living there. If the issue is important enough, you can move to a better place in this great country.

Another PA resident here.
State law reads:
§ 908. Prohibited offensive weapons.

(a) Offense defined. –A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if, except as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or possesses any offensive weapon….

“Offensive weapons.” –Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed- off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise…… or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose…..

Autos are a definite no go, but daggers are iffy, as by reading it, it's unclear if they are meant to be a separate from "the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way" or as part of the statement. The use of just commas to separate items leaves some ambiguity in the interpretation. It could be interpreted as metal knuckles and blackjacks are only illegal if they are autos as well. Semicolons vs commas would make it more cut and dry... but that's lawmakers for you Of course, LEO's can carry pretty much anything they want, which I take some issue with, but that's a whole other topic.

The real problem with PA is, unlike our gun laws, there is no preemption clause, meaning any municipality can add any knife laws they want. Philly is the prime example. You can only carry a knife - any knife - if it is being used as part of your job. So, while unlikely, you could get popped for a vic classic in the pocket of your suit pants, or a laborer could get busted for a folder in his pocket when not actively on the clock on his way to/from work. It's not likely to happen to the average person, but it can, and has. I don't know what other municipalities/townships may have some sort of knife laws above and beyond state law, but it is within their power to write such ordinances.

I've also found that many LEO's in PA like to enforce what they think the knife laws are. Especially the idea of blade length (which there is no restriction). I personally experienced or witnessed on numerous occasions an officer put the blade to his palm to measure it (which is also the most inaccurate way there could possibly be).

All that aside, I carry what I feel like, when I feel like it, and have only had an issue once (see officer palm-ruler above) and I'm never in Philly.

 

[craytab]

Another PA resident here.
State law reads:
§ 908. Prohibited offensive weapons.

(a) Offense defined. –A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if, except as authorized by law, he makes repairs, sells, or otherwise deals in, uses, or possesses any offensive weapon….

“Offensive weapons.” –Any bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed- off shotgun with a barrel less than 18 inches, firearm specially made or specially adapted for concealment or silent discharge, any blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger, knife, razor or cutting instrument, the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way by switch, push-button, spring mechanism, or otherwise…… or other implement for the infliction of serious bodily injury which serves no common lawful purpose…..

Autos are a definite no go, but daggers are iffy, as by reading it, it's unclear if they are meant to be a separate from "the blade of which is exposed in an automatic way" or as part of the statement. The use of just commas to separate items leaves some ambiguity in the interpretation. It could be interpreted as metal knuckles and blackjacks are only illegal if they are autos as well. Semicolons vs commas would make it more cut and dry... but that's lawmakers for you Of course, LEO's can carry pretty much anything they want, which I take some issue with, but that's a whole other topic.

The real problem with PA is, unlike our gun laws, there is no preemption clause, meaning any municipality can add any knife laws they want. Philly is the prime example. You can only carry a knife - any knife - if it is being used as part of your job. So, while unlikely, you could get popped for a vic classic in the pocket of your suit pants, or a laborer could get busted for a folder in his pocket when not actively on the clock on his way to/from work. It's not likely to happen to the average person, but it can, and has. I don't know what other municipalities/townships may have some sort of knife laws above and beyond state law, but it is within their power to write such ordinances.

I've also found that many LEO's in PA like to enforce what they think the knife laws are. Especially the idea of blade length (which there is no restriction). I personally experienced or witnessed on numerous occasions an officer put the blade to his palm to measure it (which is also the most inaccurate way there could possibly be).

All that aside, I carry what I feel like, when I feel like it, and have only had an issue once (see officer palm-ruler above) and I'm never in Philly.

This is all true. Our laws are so nebulous that we can carry almost anything. On the flip side, as they are so nebulous, you could find yourself with an extra charge if you are caught doing some other criminal activity.

Preemption is a funny thing about philly. The rest of the state has it for guns but philly only kind of has it. I can carry my gun concealed with a permit, not a knife though. I don't often go to philly for a myriad of reason, this being one.

I'm not aware of other local knife restrictions in the state.

 

[stabman]

When I went to Chicago yesterday, I carried a Spyderco Lava.

Could I have carried something bigger and probably have avoided having police contact issues?
Most likely, but I'd rather guarantee that I avoid spending time in America's wonderful jails.

In Canada I carry knives with blades between 3.5 and 4.25 inches generally.
If I'm going to a different country, I find out what their laws are beforehand.

 

[craytab]

When I went to Chicago yesterday, I carried a Spyderco Lava.

Could I have carried something bigger and probably have avoided having police contact issues?
Most likely, but I'd rather guarantee that I avoid spending time in America's wonderful jails.

In Canada I carry knives with blades between 3.5 and 4.25 inches generally.
If I'm going to a different country, I find out what their laws are beforehand.

Chicago jails are probably lovely!

And just to add to what I said above, I'm not concerned with any weird knife laws in the rest of my state, or any other state that allows me to conceal carry with permit. If an issue arises, my gun will be the far bigger issue, though I'm legally allowed to carry it. Perhaps a shoot out against ninjas?

 

[sgt1372]

When I went to Chicago yesterday, I carried a Spyderco Lava.

Could I have carried something bigger and probably have avoided having police contact issues?
Most likely, but I'd rather guarantee that I avoid spending time in America's wonderful jails.

In Canada I carry knives with blades between 3.5 and 4.25 inches generally.
If I'm going to a different country, I find out what their laws are beforehand.

I'm not sure what you are worried about.

The only police contact most people have is during a stop for speeding or some other traffic violation during which a search for weapons rarely occurs. Also, just walking around w/a knife of any size/design in your pocket or elsewhere on your person will not automatically bring you into contact UNLESS you do something else that draws LEO attention towards you.

So, unless you are otherwise engaged in "suspicious" or illegal behavior, I don't see why you would be concerned w/what type of knife your are carrying. The only time to be concerned is AFTER you have been the subject of an LEO contact which results in a "stop & frisk" or an arrest, in which case you'll probably have greater things to worry about other than the "add-on" illegal weapon possession charge.