A bit bothered by this test

jayharley said:
Take a look at this test, described in another tread.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298365

I don't fully understand the test, as it is in German, but I do hate to see a picture of one of my favorite knives (an ATR) with a broken blade.

Well if you look you will notice that two of the surviving knives are tanto's and the Commander is the only non-tanto. I'm going to take a guess and say they did some prying with the ATR... Which is possibly the dumbest f***ing thing you could do with a knife. :barf:
-Kevin
 
Morgoth412: Good point. I hate when "tests" are based on situations that a certain style knife is not made for. Doesn't really prove too much.
 
I don't think the photograph really says anything concerning the quality of the ATR or any of the other knives there. Knives are not prybars and using one as such is abuse. I don't pry with my knives and never will. I'm sure that if they had done a cutting test, the ATR would easily win.
 
Wow! What a test! I agree that it's sad to see a broken, unloved ATR. :(

Still, what a learning experience. Not too surprized by the ATR snapping (hollow grind makes it cut deeper and sharpen faster, but it's not a grind that yells out "lateral strength!"), but thought it'd have more company. Still, add my voice to the chorus of "it'd probably outcut everything there and had the strongest, most reliable lock of the models shown".
 
If I read it correctly the ATR scored highest in the cutting test and survived both the lock tests.

Ted
 
I made a translation of the table with testresults. Mail me if you want the file (*.doc).

Shiden
 
Cool Shiden. Please mail me.
I could host if you're OK with it.
Ted
 
Ted & Cees,

I just found this thread and just wanted to add some data...

The 3rd line in the PDF (from top to bottom) indicates the stability of the lock.
They tested it with the good old spinewhack :)

For the bending test... They clamped the blade in a vise so that the jaws of the vise were 27 mm away from the tip of the blade. Then they applyed the force of 150 and 250 Newton at the end of the handle.

Something funny besides... Mr. Emerson noticed that his knife didn't score the highest points but it seems he missed that the Commader scored the 6th place (of 6 tested knives). The ATR scored the 2nd place (ex equo with the Buck Strider 880T) and the 1st place went to the CRKT M16-14M. The editors admit that the ATR performed better at the cutting tests but because of the broken blade and the cheaper price of the M16 it just became 2nd.

If anyone of you needs a more detailed explanation/translation of this test, I'd be happy to help you further.

Cheers, Robert
 
So basically, EE is saying that his knife finshed last, but didn't break. I'm not sure why he would want to brag about that.
:confused:
 
Robert, Thanks for the extra info.

What mattered to me was that the Spyderco A.T.R. was the best in cutting and survived all the lock tests. That was enough for me...as a Spydie fan ;)

It only broke during a very silly bending ( pry-bar ) test. And that wasn't even a fare comparison between the knives due to the different grinds, thickness and steels used.

Do you have some more info on how they did the lock test?

Thanks,
Ted

Edit: (ps. was planning to contact you for a translation ... )
 
DaveH said:
So basically, EE is saying that his knife finshed last, but didn't break. I'm not sure why he would want to brag about that.
:confused:
Actually, Mr Emerson is stating something else entirely.
It's about being careful about believing what you read and so-called in-house tests.

He wasn't putting the test up to showcase his own knife or drag down anyone else's. Although people seem to be interpreting it that way. Just showing how an independent test evaluated different knives.

As far as the folks who performed the test: I don't know why they put an ATR in with this bunch...a Ronin or a Lum Tanto would have probably made more sense...as would a CQC-7 instead of a Commander.
 
The whole story is 12 pages long so I try to cut it short. It was meant to be a comparison of tactical folders and the tests were the following:

The maximum points that were possible for each test were 10.

1) Cutting (pulling)

They cut an 8 mm rope of polypropylene several times and kept a record of how many cuts were needed to cut through it completely. Then they took the average number of cuts from every knife to the final results.

2) Cutting (pushing)

Again the 8 mm rope. They tried to push the blades through the rope with both hands on the spine of the blade. It was recorded how deep the edge penetrated the rope and how often they had to try until the rope was cut.
Again the average number of trials went to the final results.

3) Lock

They just performed a spinewhack test on the knives. 5 hard smacks whith the spine on a hard surface within a very short time. Nothing really fancy, so it's no wonder that all knives passed this test.

4) Tip

They dropped the knives from the height of 1 m on a sheet of steel and recorded the damages.

5) Pivot / blade play

The knives were clamped in a vise directly under the handle. The a force of 15 kg (in the second run 25 kg) was applied to the end of the handle. Afterwards it was recorded if the alignment of the blade had changed and the differences were recorded in °. The knives were also tested for pladeplay after this test.

6) Bending test

Just like I descirbed in my posting above...

7) Is the handle slippery?

They clamped the blade in a vise and applied oil (Ballistol if you know it) to the handle and the hand of the tester. It was tested how easy the handle slipped out of the hand.

Final Points (max. 10 per category) for the ATR:

Overall cutting: 10
Lock: 10
Stability of the blade: 7
Stability of the handle/pivot/bearing: 10
Overall handling: 6
Quality: 10
Relation of price & performance: 7
TOTAL: 60 (the winner scored 62)

Comments about the ATR:

The magazine said that Spyderco equipped the ATR with modern and good (and pricey) materials, that the Handle looked classy but it was very slippery with wet hands. They also said that the blade was perfectly ground and extremly sharp and that the steel has a great ability in egde retention but that it's more brittle than others what also was proven in the tests (Doh! Why do they have to ruin a perfectly good knife just to prove what they already knew!!! Grrrr...) Overall they said that the ATR is a very high quality and beautiful knife but it doesn't fulfill all requirements to a "tactical knife". In the comments after the tests they said that the ATR clearly had the best cutting abilities but due to the slippery grip and the broken blade it didn't win.

The actual favourite of the author was the Emerson Commander. It had in his point of view the best handle and an excellent blade wich opened smoothly. Why did it score the last place? It had bladeplay, the blade wasn't held securely in the handle while closed, the liner grabbed the blade so firm that it stuck and if you opened the knife fast it stuck so hard that it was almost impossible to disengage. That and the fact that it costs almost EUR 300 on the other hand was too much and therefore it lost too many points wrote the author.

For me the bis question is: Is the ATR really a tactical knife?

I think that if you charge it by the looks - NO Maybe if you let the materials speak for them self but it looks more like a very modern but still elegant and fashionable gentlemens knife.

I also get angry everytime I see tests where good and expensive knives are destroyed. They shoud have sent it to me instead :)

damn, that was a long post....

Cheers, Robert

P.S.

Sorry if the English seems a bit strange. If I said something funny which cannot be understood - Just ask! :D
 
Dave, that's exactly the same what I was thinking.

The final Points for the Commander were:

Overall cutting: 9
Lock: 5
Stability of the blade: 9
Stability of the handle/pivot/bearing: 8
Overall handling: 10
Quality: 7
Relation of price & performance: 7
TOTAL: 55

What's the point when you have a knife that has a good grip and blade but a lock that doesn't work as it is supposed to?

OK, same would go vice versa for the broken blade of the ATR but who uses a knife as a prybar anyway?

Cheers, Robert
 
The test basically says that each knife has its strong points and weak, as based on the particular task at-hand.

I believe that to be Mr. E's point (no pun intended), not to slam any other knife featured.

This is something we all as knife-enthusiasts know, that each knife as inherent strengths and weaknesses, and it is up to us, the end-users, to properly select the right compromise between those performance parameters for our expected jobs.

And as for the lock issue? Oh no, not that can of worms again ! :)

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
I would have preferred seeing a chinook instead an ATR. I think my chinook would have hardly failed the bending test.
PS: hey, this is my first post! :)
 
Robert, thanks for the translation!

I evaluate review results based on my own knowledge and desires. And I imagine veryone else does, so I guess I appreciate EE's warning.

I'm puzzled though because if they think a tactical has a certain grip or a certain blade, why did they bother testing those that don't have what they're looking for?

I bet some rubber floor tread tape on the sides of the ATR woudl help, and I'd rather have a high rated knife with a little tape on the sides to improve grip then a poor rated knife.
 
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