A bit of Iron Kiss action (I had fun today...Long with lots of pics)

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Nov 14, 2005
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I had the chance to go down today and visit John Larson at his Iron Kiss Hammers shop outside Baltimore and see what he's been working on. For a while now, I've been hearing about a custom, one-off hammer that John had been working on. This one is the largest Iron Kiss to date. It's got a 160lb tup, and a 20:1 anvil:tup ratio. For those not good at math (like me ;) ), that means the anvil and baseplate (what's considered the anvil mass) is 3200lbs! Add the weight of the rest of the machine and it weighs in at just about 5000lbs. This is one beefy hammer! In addition, this hammer has S7 dies (I believe from Brian Russell) rather than the standard 4140 dies as it's new owner will be feeding a steady diet of stainless steel. The dies are a combination fullering/flat die set. The fullering side is very aggressive so you've got to be careful but man do they move some steel...

Here are a few pics of the Hammer. It has an 11" wide cabinet, 20" deep throat, and a 10" usable stroke height (I think that's what John said). It also has an 8 1/2" diameter tup as opposed to the 8" that is used on the 150lb hammers.

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Front of the hammer. The baseplate is 5" thick! Notice the foot rest attached to the front of the cabinet. John designed his hammers so that you rest your toe on the foot rest and operate the treadle with your heel. It seems a little backwards at first, but after 5 or 10 minutes of using his hammers it feels very natural and causes a lot less leg fatigue (for me anyways) that using your toe for the treadle causes.

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A closeup of the foot treadle setup. That's a piece of plywood the hammer is sitting on. That's all the "special footing" John's hammers need. I've even used them set up on dirt and they work great.

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A closeup of the dies. These S7 dies from Brian Russell are very solid. A bit more aggressive on the drawing side than I'd personally like, but they do really move some steel. This also shows off John's "Octagon" tup design. It's apparently a lot of work to machine, but it keeps the dies very well aligned. It also allows you to position the die holders at any of the 8 positions available so the hammer can work for you lefty's too.

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A couple of pictures of the side of the hammer. The big lever is for adjusting the stroke height. All the way up is a very short stroke (good if you're using long tooling under the hammer), and all the way down causes the dies to "clamp" in the down position. There is also an adjustment for stroke speed which can come in very handy as well, and as John and I discovered today, can make a big difference in the dynamics of how the hammer runs. Quick blows work really well and do get a lot of work done, but if you increase the stroke height and reduce the speed, the hammer REALLY starts to move some metal.

So, I started to do some forging. I began with a 4" long piece of Don Hanson's 2" W2 round. The pictures below show the stages of forging. Each picture is one heat's worth of forging (except the first picture, that's the initial heating). It should be noted that the first two heats I didn't maximize the forging potential as I was getting used to the feel of the hammer. The pictures are after each forging step, with the heat that was still left in the bar.

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Initial heating. Man, I love taking pictures of forging with coal ;)

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One heat of easy forging. The firebricks will be used for scale. That's about 1 1/34" square by 5" long.

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Two heats. I started at the end of this heat with the fullering side of the dies. You can see the rippling of the surface that shows how agressive these dies are.

More pics to come in more posts I've put the max in this one and I'm waiting for the rest to upload right now..

-d
 
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Now thats one sweet looking hammer, I love the option to be able to clamp with the hammer.
Chris
 
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4 heats. This shows the thickness and width of the bar.

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Gratuitous fire shot....

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At heat number 5 I had to start working in sections as I couldn't heat the whole bar at once.

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6 heats and I'm to the final size I want. It's about 1 3/4"x3/8"x22-24".

I did run one more heat after this to just flatten and straighten things, but that was it. I'm pretty certain if I had been more comfortable with the hammer I could have knocked a heat or two off of this. This would have taken me the better part of a long day woth my 30lb Kerrihard at home, and it wouldn't have been near as straight and square.

Tomorrow I'll post some pics of what I did with the 52100 roller bearing I took with me. It was 5" or so long and about 3" diameter at the center. We ultimately quit before that one was a bar. 52100 is VERY tough under the hammer. I have a new respect for you guys that bang out bearings by hand....

-d
 
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Very cool deker, thanks for posting the pics and it looks like it was a fun day. I've seen a couple of Ron Kinyon hammers in action by some of the local blacksmiths, but have never had the opportunity to play with one myself.
 
Wow!!! What would he charge for a custom job like that and what kind of compressor would you need to run it?
 
Holy moly!!!

Great stuff Deker! Thanks for sharing!!! The thing I love about the Iron Kiss hammers is they look like battleships :D I'd sure like to run one. The clamping feature would be real slick for many operations.

Looks like John has one hell of a shop. :cool:

I'm also curious what he'll get for a hammer like that.
 
You'll have to talk to John about pricing guys. Especially on the custom jobs it ends up being variable based on what the buyer wants. For example, I know that the S7 dies are a bit more spendy than his standard dies, but I think they'd be worth it. Once I get to put in my order (and I will, it's just a matter of time and money) I'll be opting for S7 dies for sure as I want to do some stainless work, etc.

As to the compressor required, I have a bit more info. Yesterday we were working with John's 20HP 3-phase compressor and it (obviously) was just fine. A 10HP single phase unit would work fine for "one iron in the fire" forging, but it would need the tank refill time of re-heating. I'd personally go for a pair of 7 1/2HP single phase two-stage pump units in parallel to run something like this. I've got one already that just needs a new motor, and a separate 5HP single-stage that would be a functioning pair for now. As is stands, I could add a third compressor and still be ahead of the game as I got the bigger of the two I have for $200 on Craigslist. I've known for a while that I will own an Iron Kiss, but until the stars align for me to get it, I'm keeping on the lookout for good compressor deals. They're around more than you might realize. Even if you count the cost of my original compressor (which I can't really. It was a gift 10 years ago), I've only got $700 into air pumping equipment.

I'm with you on the battleship thing Nick. I remember the first time I saw John's hammers there were two on a trailer about to get offloaded and all I saw was a small Naval fleet :) John's shop is very nicely equipped. What never ceases to amaze me is the efficiency with which his shop is designed. He built even this monster hammer all by himself. There are no shop monkeys to help relocate things, etc. The fact that he can manage that is a testament to his ingenuity IMHO.

-d
 
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