a "CASE" of Titanic

Again?

My Cases are solid knives for the $35-$40 or so I pay for them. My GEC's are outstanding knives for the $75-$150 I pay for them. I carry a mix of Case and GEC's.

I'm giving my oldest son a 'birth year' red mini trapper for Christmas this year. It'll match his red peanut. My youngest gets a blue small gunstock. This from a guy who has a $200+/month GEC habit.
 
I can agree with that. I actually think the tan caliber models may be step in the right direction. A line of lower priced knives for the working man or beginner. I think they should have much more entries with CV available. If there's one single thing I wish Case would do, it would be totally forgeting the Elvis commemoratives, the John Deer commemoratives, the country western star of the month commemoratives, and leave that crap for the Franklin Mint. Get back to making good working pocket knives for normal people whose spouses don't collect beenie babies.

All too damm often I've taken out my peanut to cut something, and someone will ask 'what's that pretty little thing?" When I say Case, I hear a comment like' Case, yeah they used to make good stuff before they became a collector thing." Really, I've got that more than a couple times. There's a perception out there with a number of people that Case does not make a serious using pocket knife anymore. They need to do something abut that soon.

Two of my favorite knife companies, Victorinox and Opinel, have both been in business since 1890. Ther's still an Elsner at the head of the table in Switzerland, and an Opinel in the head chair in France. Niether has frgoten the core target and mission of thier product, and both have survived world wide depressions, wars, polititical upheaval and economic adapting. Schrade didn't adapt, nor did Camillus. I hope Case fares better.

Carl.

^^ THIS ^^

I have the same concerns and pride about Buck.

Huge challenge here is how do Case and Buck appeal to starters and grow the market while still leveraging their tradition and core identity? Especially when there *IS* a large set of beginner knife owners out there but their tastes and wallets are oriented to low-cost nameless tacticals?

IMO, here is fantastic knife from Case. It integrates their tradition with appeal to modern users with the scissors. This could easily be an icon knife for Case moving forward. Do it with synthetic scales and get it in the $40 range and it's a winner.
61MY%2B2Qm2kL._AA1350_.jpg


And, imo, here is the template for the knife for Buck. It integrates their tradition will appeal to modern users with blade shape. This could be THE Buck knife of a next generation.

21Vnu1sT7xL._SS500_.jpg


Better yet, offer it with a drop point blade like this.

Ecolite drop point left by Pinnah, on Flickr
 
Seems to me most are mid priced. Maybe a tad on the high side for working knives. But that is compared to what is mostly a made in China dominated market for pocketknives in general.

Quality overall, in my opinion, is rather good. a few blades rubbing liners on occasion, but at least they are brass liners, or rubbing each other, especially on stockman type patterns, but that's fairly typical of how most knives of that style tend to be, until you get real highend. It sucks, but it's part of the nature of the beast. I don't excuse gaps quite so easily though, but I've not had problems with that.

I agree on getting rid of the commemorative knives. Maybe they do sell better than I think for occasions (Christmas and such), but it seems to me those are often the knives that end up heavily discounted a year later.
 
Decent thread - it didn't deteriorate as some do when the topic is this "subjective". Part of the issue is the demise of the brick and mortar stores. A really poorly made knife would get sent back to the Distributor or handed back to the Sales Rep, accompanied by a few choice words. The negative feedback to the manufacturer would be quick. Many non-KnifeNut low price sellers (and customers) have broken down that traditional link between OEMs and sellers. I prefer to buy from other KnifeNuts because they understand my special "needs".

Many poorly made $50 Case and Buck knives are probably sitting in dressers and desks ... received as gifts or bought on a whim (on the 'Bay or Amazon or through the stores in the outlet malls like the the one in Branson, MO) and will never be owned by a KnifeNut. GEC and other brands with less "brand history" and widespread fame (e.g. Queen, etc.) are almost always in the hands of a KnifeNut - the level of scrutiny and product expectation is on average much higher. A Case, Buck, or GEC KnifeNut (or any other brand you care to name) is by definiton a "nut". One of the symptoms can be extreme brand loyalty. I have never seen a knife that I couldn't find some "good" in. If it's not up to my personal accumulation/retention standards and I'm not going to return it, I give it to someone who won't care but who will still appreciate it and use it. To a KnifeNut many of these are abominations - to a non-KnifeNut these "flawed" knives are beyond their expectations. Any folding knife with good steel, and well executed F&F is a friend of mine.

As my wife has pointed out on numerous occasions - I'm a KnifeNut (heavy emphasis on the "nut") so she's never surprised if cutlery is involved in my strange or socailly inappropriate behavior. To her knives are pretty or dangerous looking or (worse yet) cute. Her dad was a KnifeNut - every real knife (even some of the butterknives had re-profiled edges) in her parents house was scalpel sharp. The other day my son (Afghan Comabt Vet) was busting my chops because every knife I own could be used to perform an emergency appendectomy. He does not have the KnifeNut gene or he wouldn't even need to comment on this fact. I can't think of any compelling reason why every knife shouldn't be as "sharp" as it's steel will allow ... a concept so obvious that it shouldn't even need to be repeated out loud. :D
 
Well u got to think about something. How many guys out there are knife knuts? A guy who is working 70 hrs a week laying block, welding on a pipeline, rounding up a herd, or getting in a harvest isn't worried about the fit and finish of his knife. They want an American made knife for as cheap as they can get it. This where case comes into play. I was talking to my knife guy the other day and he said that he had sim GEC's but sent them back because he couldn't sell them. He said that his customer base was farmers and construction guys and they thought paying more than 40$ for a knife is silly. I like knives and I have a bunch but you guys would have a stroke if y'all seen what I put a knife through. How many guys on here would scrape a battery post or open a bag of quickcrete with a 400$ knife? So I believe case caitters to all class of people. Its all bout the business for any knife company and GEC has cornerd their market and case has theirs.
 
Well u got to think about something. How many guys out there are knife knuts? A guy who is working 70 hrs a week laying block, welding on a pipeline, rounding up a herd, or getting in a harvest isn't worried about the fit and finish of his knife. They want an American made knife for as cheap as they can get it. This where case comes into play. I was talking to my knife guy the other day and he said that he had sim GEC's but sent them back because he couldn't sell them. He said that his customer base was farmers and construction guys and they thought paying more than 40$ for a knife is silly. I like knives and I have a bunch but you guys would have a stroke if y'all seen what I put a knife through. How many guys on here would scrape a battery post or open a bag of quickcrete with a 400$ knife? So I believe case caitters to all class of people. Its all bout the business for any knife company and GEC has cornerd their market and case has theirs.

Farmkid, done both with 1000$ custom...

I get your point though. I worked with guys that thought anything past a folding utility knife for 10$ was a waste. Turns out they were right. I got along better with one actually. Anyhow, your not the only one that uses your knife :)
 
FarmKid- That's a dose of reality.^
My father-in-law worked at a factory and he said just what you said. $20. bucks for a folder is a lot of money.
 
I've got CASE knives I revere and use ( my 'Car Knife' is a CASE Med stockman in stainless, very handy and maintenance free).

However, when looking at new releases it's always GEC that catches my eye, nothing new from CASE interests me these days. Plus the GECs all go into use.

To think about the OP's analogy with the 'Titanic' and her hierarchy. Steerage rough and ready as opposed to the opulence of First Class, I'm not sure! A lowly Yellow Penknife or Sodbuster has served me well and come with out issues. My sole CASE/Bose Norfolk will remain my sole example so disappointing was its finish all round. But then, some Third Class/Steerage passengers did survive while conversely some rich&powerful figures did perish Astor, Guggenheim. The paths of glory lead but to the grave etc.....

The Knifenut is of course unsinkable:D:D Good thread and responses.

Thanks Will
 
Last edited:
I revere my Cases the same as GEC, Queen or Cannel Street, they still make a dern good knife SS or CV!
 
Instead of introducing new handle materials case needs to suck it up and bring out or reintroduce sum new patterns. Not goofy Patterns but more jacks or stockmans. How many guys would buy a 3 1/2 inch tear drop jack with a master spear and a pen with amber bone cv? Or reintroduce the 92 pattern jack and stockman. Or create a 4 inch soddie in cv.
 
Instead of introducing new handle materials case needs to suck it up and bring out or reintroduce sum new patterns. Not goofy Patterns but more jacks or stockmans. How many guys would buy a 3 1/2 inch tear drop jack with a master spear and a pen with amber bone cv? Or reintroduce the 92 pattern jack and stockman. Or create a 4 inch soddie in cv.

You may have a good idea there. Look how Buck is having such success with the 300 line of traditional knives. They're selling those 301's and 303's as fast as they come off the line. So there must still be a lot of working folks who want a old style pattern for everyday work. There was even a video floating around of a man who used a Buck 301 to save a kid from being choked to death by a seatbelt that got wrapped around his neck. So what is Buck doing that Case could take a lesson from?

I don't think that Schrade or Camillus went under because of lack of demand. What killed them was the lack of quality toward the end because of the business model of bleeding a company dry without putting anythng back in to replace worn out machining or tooling. Some the Schrade Old Timers I saw that were fresh out of the blister pack in the last year were absolutely atrocious. All kinds of blade wobble, very poor fit and finish, they were almost like a knife from an unnamed middle eastern country. The tooling that was carried out of the factory was old worn out machines that should have been retired many years before. Instead it was easier to just close the doors and the top dogs retire to West Palm Beach.

If Case did stop the collectable nonsense and make good using knives that could be bought sight unseen, it would go a very long way to restoring the reputation of the company. People who buy Buck and Moore Maker are just looking for a good work knife. Concentrate on the old well known patterns, make it a decent mid price knife, and Cater to the people who like Buck 301's, but maybe want some jigged bone instead of black plastic. Make up a bunch of yellow handle CV bladed knives for the brick and mortar shops. Make some barrows in yellow and CV.

I think there's a market, Case just has neglected it too much. Less Beanie Baby knives and more users for blue collar guys. Maybe the caliber line will do some of that.

Carl.
 
Love both Case and GEC, but as an old guy with arthritic hands I probably won't buy many more GEC products
in the near future; the extreme pulls are just to much for a comfortable carry. GEC f&f is exemplary but does
not one bit of good if I can't use the knife.
 
I think case has a strong customer base already but I think it's time for change. Look how many new patterns GEC comes out with a year. But for mass produced knives I say cases quality control in above average. Case discontinued knives over the last fifteen years that people actually used. Then they come out with ugly handles and theme knives. Now big taticals are the hot thing but I see them fading out and I think GEC is doing an excellent job making different knives for different tastes so case just needs to step up. I'm not bashing case I carry one daily prolly never carry anything else but there is always room for improvement.
 
Case will make adjustments or they won't. It's that simple.
Years ago, a rep from Spyderco told me that they would never make a folder that could be disassembled. Also years ago, a rep from Emerson told me that they would never make a frame-lock Emerson folder.
 
Last edited:
Now big taticals are the hot thing but I see them fading out and I think GEC is doing an excellent job making different knives for different tastes so case just needs to step up. I'm not bashing case I carry one daily prolly never carry anything else but there is always room for improvement.

Not arguing with you on this, but wondering what makes you say that tacticals are fading out?

From what I see with working guys I know, if they carry a locking folder, then they tend to carry a tactical style of some sort. And if they carry a smaller pocket knife/tool it tends to either be Victorinox SAK or a small Leatherman type thing. I can't think of a single person (outside of knife forums) I know who carries a slip joint as a work knife other than an SAK.

IMO, Buck needs to figure out a way to sell to the post-tactical crowd and I think they are on course with that by offering both tacticals and more traditional locking folders.

Case's core seems more towards the smaller slip-joint crowd and while I can wish for a traditional revival among workers (as opposed to traditional collector types), I don't see it. Maybe it's a regional thing. Or maybe it's because I spend my time in the hard knock life of a carpeted office. ;)

So, what would Case need to do beyond the Sodbusters to appeal to the worker who currently carries an SAK or small multi-tool?

Does somebody want to defend the idea that American workers still carry traditional slip joint patterns? (It could be the case, I just don't know.)
 
I think case has a strong customer base already but I think it's time for change. Look how many new patterns GEC comes out with a year. But for mass produced knives I say cases quality control in above average. Case discontinued knives over the last fifteen years that people actually used. Then they come out with ugly handles and theme knives. Now big taticals are the hot thing but I see them fading out and I think GEC is doing an excellent job making different knives for different tastes so case just needs to step up. I'm not bashing case I carry one daily prolly never carry anything else but there is always room for improvement.

I don't think tacticals are going anywhere. Their description and my initial impressions of them being only mall ninja equipment is long gone. They are now a light weight staple for me and countless of my field bound construction colleagues as hard work knives. They are very affordable, and the right ones have tremendous utility value. I started carrying these screwed together, nylon/G10 handled liner and frame lock knives several years ago and they now have a permanent place on my pocket (clipped) as part of my tool kit for work. With my RAT 1, my Kershaw JYD II (and a couple of other Kershaws!), I have plenty of hard working knife for all the nasty jobs I won't use my good knife to do.

While I have never seen an Emerson, Strider, or Sebenza on the job, I don't think that was their market. No one I know would pay $500 - $700 for a folding knife that was for solid, hard use on a daily basis.

BUT, I see all manner of affordable tacticals used on the job that get thrown in the truck tool box at the end of the day or even left in the tool bags. While many don't hold an edge very well, their utility value is undeniable. Since they have no organic parts and are almost without exception have some kind of stainless blade, they are impervious to solvents to clean them up (don't want your CASE knife covered with tar or butyl caulk, right?), and just as important down here in S. Texas with out strings of 100+ degree days with 80% humidity, they don't rust easily. Since many have come to depend on that style of knife for work, you will usually find a higher quality, smaller tactical style knife in their pants somewhere (lock blades only, please) for the evening or weekend. Most of my associates cannot sharpen their knives, they have several affordable models that they take their knives to gun shows or flea markets in a bag to have them sharpened from time to time. At least in the construction/blue collar crowd I am in, they are a staple and are more popular all the time.

Another small point. As long as CASE makes a stockman, they will have a market. Their designs come and go and reflect the demands of the market, but they have a few basic designs like the peanut, medium/large stockman, canoe, trappers, coppereads, jacks, etc., that have been staples for decades. Those knives are still churned out by the thousands a year per model. I can't think of any of their line of good selling staples that have gone away.

And the last one. Never, ever have I seen a GEC or its cousins out on a job site. Been doing this for almost 40 years, and no one carries a $100 to $150 knife as their main blade. Useful patterns or not, it isn't practical. Besides, their knives (sorry fans...) tend to be heavy, some impossibly hard to open (hard to use TOOLS are considered poorly made in my professional group) making them difficult to use, and they use a moderately hard old school carbon. Romantic and useful, 1095 etc. is a darling among many as it reminds them of their grandpa, Norman Rockwell Thanksgiving, "the way things used to be" etc. It still serves well for a lot of folks, but for sheer utility value at a better price, there are much better choices. And really... moderately hard carbon steel on a $125 knife?

My first stainless blades were on a CASE I was gifted around '73. It was so soft the knife was of no use. Literally, that bad. But then around '77 I got a Browning folding hunter in 440c. It cost a pretty penny, but was great. Hollow ground it was easy to sharpen, held an edge well and never rusted. I carried a few more carbons after that as they aren't much maintenance during winter for me, but when good stainless became plentiful that was about the end of me and carbon. I have a shoe box full (literally) and don't need more.

From what I see with working guys I know, if they carry a locking folder, then they tend to carry a tactical style of some sort.

See above. Don't leave home (for the job site) without one.

And if they carry a smaller pocket knife/tool it tends to either be Victorinox SAK or a small Leatherman type thing. I can't think of a single person (outside of knife forums) I know who carries a slip joint as a work knife other than an SAK.

I have never met, in 40 years, anyone that uses a SAK as a daily work knife. I see them on keychains all the time, but never have I seen an air conditioning man whip out a SAK to cut duct, an electrician use one to open heavy cardboard boxes of wire or to strip wire, a brick mason to cut a story pole, a trim carpenter use one to shave moldings, etc. Never. Ever. SAKs are uncomfortable for use for more than a few minutes, their steel isn't hard enough to keep a good edge since they grind them so thin (good slicers, though!) and the little plastic handles are soft and break. They are built "job site tough" for long term, hard use and I don't think that was ever their market. They are a gentleman's utility knife, for which they have no equal.

I see multitools of all brands out there, but no small ones. All the maintenance and craft people seem to know which one is best for their trade and they carry accordingly.

Does somebody want to defend the idea that American workers still carry traditional slip joint patterns? (It could be the case, I just don't know.)

I think a lot of us still carry traditionals. We now carry them in tandem with larger knives. I don't miss carrying my large stockmans - the 4 1/4" and beyond models I carried in the 70s and 80s. They tore up my pants, and were so damn uncomfortable under my tool bags it was ridiculous. I now carry smaller patterns such as medium/small stockmans, pen knives or peanuts. They disappear into the pocket and since my big knife takes the beating I can keep these small folders sharp as a razor for a couple of weeks.

I still know a few older guys that carry large traditionals only, but alas, they have heard the siren's call of off shore production of well made knives of fairly hard stainless. Some are assembled and fitted better than their domestic cousins, and that sealed the fate of the cousins.

The exception is BUCK. Affordable, reliable and bulletproof, it is still out there in the millions as a medium EDC for all trades.

Robert
 
Interesting post midnight flyer, thanks for chiming in. It is always good to hear from someone running in different circles than myself and gain a little perspective.

I can say that in my background, which varied wildly as to environments, I have seen a variety of knives. In the heavy highway construction business (where I worked for years to save up for college) you still see a lot of guys with traditionals. But that varies from craft to craft. The operators will carry a traditional but the typical laborer may have a locking clip knife or multi-tool. The bridge guys will probably have a clip or a utility knife. It varied.

Now in the engine business I see it reversed. Most guys have a milti-tool and a few guys have a traditional. A very few others have a clip locking model. I am kind of out of the normal in that I won't really carry a milti-tool. I keep a small file, flathead and philips screwdrivers, wirestrippers and whatnot handy. I find it easier to take a few moments to get the real article out of my little kit as opposed to the ones on the multi-tools which don't work as well for me. But my traditional gets used a good bit too. I admit that the small pen blade gets the most use as it just seems to be handy for outlining gaskets or cleaning one off of a part or cutting a small wire or opening a package or whatever.

In all honesty there is a reason the small pen blade gets used so much and a locking blade knife with a wider grind blade would be a hindrance not a help so I avoid them in my profession. It seems like when I need a blade that precision is more of a problem than anything else.

But it is good to hear from someone whose experience is different from mine.

Will
 
My favorite non-SAK, traditional pattern USING knife is probably the Buck cadet with black Delrin handles. It works very well, looks good but isn't something you will baby because it's collectible, etc. It's also a good size. I would use it for rougher cutting duties than an SAK blade. I have a 301, but it's too much of a load in my pocket, so I keep it in a drawer.

My late day's work knives were an old Buck 110, which had a convex blade grind and edge; and some Camillus pocket knives, one of whose main blade was sharpened down to almost nothing.

Jim
 
Back
Top