A child's first tool - knife or saw?

A

akennedy73

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The post about kids and survival got me thinking. Getting a young kid his or her first knife is a time-honored tradition for parents who appreciate and love the outdoors. But from a survival perspective, is this the best idea? For a young child, say four to six years old, lost in the woods (and assuming some previous training and skill development) the primary concern is creating a shelter and/or building a fire. For an adult with a knife this is easy - small saplings can be cut for a shelter's frame (or chopped if the fixed blade is large and heavy enough) and fairly large dry and downed wood can be broken up for firewood by the tried-and-true stomping method (or simply dragged over to the fire to burn the ends).

But a child applying the force and leverage necessary to use a scandi fixed blade to cut down a sapling is perhaps not the best thing - a slip could cause a serious wound. And a child is certainly not going to be able to break up as large pieces of wood for a fire as an adult can or drag larger pieces of wood over to a fire.

So maybe a small saw is in order rather than a fixed blade as a child's first outdoors tool. I'm thinking an Opinel saw maybe. It's similar to a parent's pocketknife, small enough for a child to use, safer than a fixed blade, and more useful and efficient for a young child to create shelter and gather firewood.

Any thoughts from parents with young children?
 
For me, I owned and still have is a saw at 5, and a knife at 10.
My kids got their knives at 10.
 
I wish I would have been introduced to the saw at a young age. I grew up with a knife, and now don't even consider the saw when I'm thinking about outdoor tools. I'm starting to get into backpacking, and am starting to see that a lot of times the saw is A) lighter B) safer and C) more efficient (don't jump down my throat, I said "sometimes").

The cold hard honest truth of the matter is this: Knives are cool, saws are not. I've never said "Look at my badass saw" to anyone. I find it very interesting when I'm on the trail watching someone hack away with a knife, and then some seasoned old-timer go "zip zip zip" with his folding saw and it's done.

So what I would do is get them a SAK with both, and start teaching them that sometimes you use the saw, sometimes you use the knife.
 
In my family knives were never really given, they were just there and we kids knew to always cut away, etc. I was never really taught, but learned by observation. We had hatchets and axes more so than saws.

At 10yrs were received a BB gun; at 16yrs we received a 12 gauge; at 21yrs we received a handgun. Its kinda funny, now that I have weapon handling training & experience, I can’t believe someone wasn’t killed in my younger years – but we’re all deaf:mad:

My kids are 2 & 4 and I believe they will get a knife of their own around 8-10yrs. That does not mean they will not handle knives prior to that. I am a bit over protective, so I doubt they will be stranded somewhere (I get it, I know parents with this attitude are the biggest culprits); but if they go out with others or something happens to me, they will have the necessary knowledge to be found (yes they both can dial 9-1-1). I think that is one area where the lack of parental planning is evident; what if something happens to mommy/daddy or they won’t respond or move – do your kids know what to do?
 
My kids are 8 and 10 and my judgment is they are not ready to *own* either yet. That said, my dad gave my a pocket knife (his dad was in the cutlery business) when I was 7-8. However, I did something stupid with it and lost my privileges for another six months to a year.
 
hlee said:
How about a SAK with a saw?
Click to expand...
My First Vic Plus
A SAK with a blunt tipped main blade and a saw

I still vote that a young child should learn knife handling skills 1st. A knife is used nearly every day, not so with a saw. Now once you move past the child education / carry issue you next tackle specific applications. I agree that young children outdoors may be able to accomplish more with a saw than with only a knife. But would I replace the knife with a saw? Nope. Make the saw an addition.
 
I gave an Opinel last year to a very nice boy, 6 yo. First he cut my finger when he took the knife and after 30 min he cut himself, not bad, just a scratch.Now he knows to cut a stick, a rope, to open a package, but is a "town" boy and for his age should be enough.
 
A saw is a good idea if you are thinking about survival situations, and maybe there should always be one in his pack or bag when outdoors and he should be taught how to use it.

But, the reason a knife is so traditional, is because it is a much more useful and versatile everyday tool, that can come in handy whether being outdoors, at home, or in the city, etc. I think the tradition of giving a child there first knife, is not because they are finally old enough to handle a knife, but because they are finally old/responsible enough to be trusted to carry and use a knife everyday without, or with little, supervision. The usual age is between 8 and 12, but only you as the parent can know when you child is mature enough to receive his own knife to be carried and used. Sort of a passage into manhood if you will.

A saw, while very useful outdoors or in a survival situation, is likely only to be used in those situations and has less symbolic meaning than receiving your first knife, it's more like getting a piece of camping equipment as apposed to getting a right of passage.

ETA: I forgot, but like others, I would suggest a SAK with a saw to get the best of both worlds. Just make sure your wife/girlfriend doesn't steal the tweezers.
 
Eyegor said:
My First Vic Plus
A SAK with a blunt tipped main blade and a saw
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was going to suggest. Why choose between the two when you can have both?

I got my first knife when I was 6. Still have all my fingers and organs.
 
I bought a pair of these for my kids (6 and 8 years old). Its a "my first victorinox" series with rounded tips so they do not stab each other with it!!!!!!!!!


VN54652.jpg
 
Noshtero said:
The cold hard honest truth of the matter is this: Knives are cool, saws are not.
Click to expand...

wow, that's cold man - real cold...

;):D

Thanks for the input everyone - it's not really a matter of choosing between a saw or a knife. Just thinking as a practical matter that a saw might be better to give a child before a fixed blade. Those blunt-tip SAKs with saws are great (I've considered getting one for myself) but building a shelter or collecting firewood with one is a different matter. It's just that I'll be wanting to teach my child bushcraft skills as soon as possible - and it might be much safer and efficient if I teach skills with an Opinel saw rather than a scandi mora knife.
 
I Would say the my first victorinox would be the way to go.But you need to really drum it in that it is sharp! and not to go running your finger over the edge of it and that it cant cut 'everything'.
 
For kids that young, I would equip them with signal devices, light(s), space blanket/bivy bag, snacks and a couple juice boxes or a 500ml Nalgene. I don't think a kid that young could really do much as to fire or shelter building and you want them to stay put and make a racket. You can show them how to insulate the ground and hole up at the base of a tree to block the wind and rain. Of course you are drilling it into them that they need to stay within sight of you at all times, don't run from cougars, etc.

I agree that 8+ is more like it for sharp stuff and it just depends on the kid. I'd start the younger ones off with some supervised use of an SAK and start building skills. A motivated 12 yo can do just about anything an adult can skill wise. They used to get apprenticed at that age.
 
apsilon said:
Exactly what I was going to suggest. Why choose between the two when you can have both?

I got my first knife when I was 6. Still have all my fingers and organs.
Click to expand...

But your brother has that eye patch...... :D
 
dd61999 said:
I bought a pair of these for my kids (6 and 8 years old). Its a "my first victorinox" series with rounded tips so they do not stab each other with it!!!!!!!!!


VN54652.jpg
Click to expand...

Great starter. You can borrow it to open the beer they hauled up the hill for you and didn't know it :)
 
i agree with dalew, that for children where size/leverage ability is the issue you should stick to basic signalling/getting found policies. also drum in that if a child is lost that they should not hide from people looking for them (many smaller children can be easily scared of rescuers it seems)

once again; whistles, flashlights (strobing flashlights?) etc are good things. also appropriate clothing for the weather, and perhaps an extra layer handy in a small pack.
 
my sons are in cubscouts, my oldest is 11 and will enter boy scouts this year. as he was growing up he was constantly taught and tested on safety rules. when he made either wolf or bear i taught the den a knife safety course according to the scout manual (very legal like, follow the rules or we wont cover you with scout insurance if someone cuts off a finger or an ear...).

he earned his "Whittling Chip" that he can carry at scout functions when he carries his knife. gave him a nice basic Buck traditional 3 blade pocket knife. he had a couple of accidents but nothing serious. i had been letting him practice this last year with a saw and a hatchet. he recieved both for Christmas.

in retrospect, i could have given him a Gerber exchange - a blade saw at about 7 yrs old with the fine tooth saw blade inserted. that way he could cut wood for shelter, fishing pole, digging stick (for bait) etc. if he needed to sharpen it i could have shown him how to rub the wood on a rock to sand it to a point. hope this helped - Eric
 
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