A coat of what?

[Howard Wallace]

Some of you old fogies on the forum remind me of Diogenes, wandering around ancient Greece with his lantern, in search of an honest man.

Quit yer grouchin’. I’m convinced we chose this time to be borne into for a reason. These are the times that try men’s souls, but so were other times. The trials may vary a bit from era to era.

Yesterday my daughter came home from her Jr. high school with an assignment to make up a coat of arms. I suggested some themes, one of them being an arm bearing a Sirupati. She does have a custom 20” HI Sirupati and she is quite handy with it.

She explained to me that they were not allowed to draw pictures of weapons in school. I asked her if she knew what arms were and what a coat of arms was for. She did. I suggested an appropriate coat of arms to bring in would contain upper left, two outstretched arms presenting a broken sword - symbolizing cowardice, upper right, a bended knee symbolizing submission to our masters, lower field a broken doorway with two pair of unclothed legs in horizontal position, a peace symbol superimposed – representing the passive observance of the rape of a family member and symbolizing peace at all costs.

She looked at me like I was a crazy old fart -- which I am. This particular battle I intend to fight in the mind of my daughter and my son. I think I’m winning.

A while ago when I was getting rid of a bunch of knives I told my kids they could each pick one before I sold the rest. My daughter picked up an Applegate-Fairbarin dagger, hefted it, and said, “I like this one.”

There’s some satisfaction to be found in moments like that.

 

[beoram]

sometimes one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry at these sorts of things! What about supporters (the two figures which stand on either side of a coat of arms)? Are lions allowed, or only herbivores?

 

[Bill Martino]

Good story, Howard and thanks.

A coat of arms with no pictures of arms?

Does anybody besides me think there is something very strange and upsetting about a kid being prohibited from drawing a picture of a knife or gun in school? This gets my free speech phobia to rattling around.

 

[munk]

Does anybody besides me think there is something very strange and upsetting about a kid being prohibited from drawing a picture of a knife or gun in school? This gets my free speech phobia to rattling around.>>> UB

This is well past phobia. This is real. It is happening.

munk

 

[firkin]

How about a garment (coat) with dozens of arms signifying unthinking, literal, "zero tolerance", myrmidonic adherance to the latest "rules" and instructions which attempt to ignore or rewrite centuries of tradition/history?

Or a black whirlpool, the vortex of ignorance?

Or a grid signifying the pigeon-holes into which everything must fit, else it must be ignored?

Perhaps a neuron with severed axons?

What an absurd situation.

 

[Pappy]

I remember the leather lunch bag that my uncle made me hanging on my belt and rifle in hand headed to the one roomn school house. The rifle sat in a corner near rhe teachers desk all day long. No one bothered it, it bothered no one. At 4:00 PM Me, lunch bag and rifle went east to the creek and turned south toward home. By the time I got to the house I usually had a ribbit or squirrel for my grandmother to put in the cooking pot.
Just what has happened I have no idea. I had just as many fights while going to that school as any average kid but, I never thought of going in for that rifle.

 

[munk]

Just what has happened I have no idea. I had just as many fights while going to that school as any average kid but, I never thought of going in for that rifle.>> Pappy

and now kids in many areas can't practise with toy rifles in drill, or take shooting competition.

Mom told me something years ago I found interesting. Unlike me, she actually learned something in college. Apparently, the animals most capable of defending themselves do the least harm to one another in the mating ritual or other dominance issues. While chickens will peck each others eyes out.

We're pecking each other's eyes out. Fights at school used to be one on one when I was a kid. Now it is pack vs outsider. And kick a man when he is down? This was once so shameful no one would risk doing it for fear of being cut off from peer approval.

I always toss this back to the gun control Buddhists, 'nothing is as it appears to be. If you want peace, arm the people." (I mean no disrespect to the many Buddhists and other practionars of Eastern Arts and Religions who do believe in self defense.)

munk

 

[BruiseLeee]

I remember a news report about a school kid who got suspended for pointing a breaded chicken finger at a classmate and saying "bang".

If I had kids I wouldn't put em' in public school.

 

[Bill Martino]

I know that story well, Pappy. I started school in 1939. The depression was still pretty bad in SE KS and unlike it is today kids HAD to contribute to family survival and one of the ways they could do this was to bring home a couple of quail, a rabbit or squirrel and they sure as hell couldn't do this with their bare hands. It took a .22 rifle, usually a cheap single shot and usually a 16 guage for the kids. Walking through the fields on the way home from school with a gun in your hands was a near necessity.

My old now retired college professor pal says of his students, "what these kids need is to live through a great depression and a world war."

I think he could be right.

 

[Tohatchi NM]

People fear what they don't understand, which is why many people are deathly afraid of guns, and even big scary knives. They aren't exposed to guns, except in the news or, more rarely, by witnessing a holdup or other violent act. They don't see them as tools, machines built and wielded by men for a purpose. They see them as nasty, scary and dangerous. Nevermind that, even if you take a criminal's gun away, you can't take away his or her mental state - the thirst for power and dominance over another person, the lack of value for life, the pain and anger. These are the root causes of societal violence, not the presence of weapons. (Glorification of weapons and violence is another issue. Violence wasn't so glorious when people had daily contact with guns, and clear knowledge of what they can do.)

my 2 cents

 

[Bill Martino]

I buy your logic, To. Teach this to your students and build youself some good karma.

 

[Tohatchi NM]

My students live in a different world. We're out here in rural America, wide-open spaces, lower-income community that can still look out the window and see the land. I'm sure lots of my students eat because someone is handy with a rifle - the deer out here are ghosts. I've never seen on yet, just tracks. Far cry from suburbia, where deer waltz up to your house looking for bushes to snack on (out here, that role is played by the cows )

So I'm not too worried about students being needlessly afraid of guns. I just have to work on the self-appreciation angle, so they value themselves and others enough not to kill.

 

[Federico]

Sounds like the same ol Bullsh#$t that public schools always do. I remember while my son was still in kindegarten in public schools many a talk with a concerned teacher because he liked the evil awful violent power ranger show. Not that he was bullying other kids, nor was he being overly aggressive or violent, but that as a 6 year old boy he liked a show where guys dressed in tights wearing motorcycle helmets prance around. Geez, I remember in high school kids getting expelled under the zero tolerance rules for having squirt guns in their car trunks. Its these same mindless bureaucrats that let the white supremecist gangs pamphlet the highschool cafeteria and beat on all the minority kids Erghhh just getting angry losing all logic, sorry for the rant but these guys make me #$#%@#%:barf:

 

[Bill Martino]

This is all very, very bothersome to me.

At our 50th high school class reunion I asked, "Do all of you realize just how incredibly lucky we were to have been born in this little farming, coal mining community and going to that little community high school?"

I know I'm not supposed to say this but there seems to be something very positive about the "good old days."

 

[not2sharp]

You have to love them new fangled history textbooks. The Minutemen are probably shown armed with dusters and dishrags. The Civil War, the First and Second World Wars, korea, Vietnam and the Gulf War occupy a full two paragraphs; while the great society fill the rest of the text. Good thing we still have those video games around to teach kids gun safety. I guess this is how a world power fall - not with a crash but with alot of whimps and whimpers.

n2s

 

[Tohatchi NM]

Originally posted by not2sharp
You have to love them new fangled history textbooks. The Minutemen are probably shown armed with dusters and dishrags. The Civil War, the First and Second World Wars, korea, Vietnam and the Gulf War occupy a full two paragraphs; while the great society fill the rest of the text.

Come to think of it, I spent most of US History not so long ago learning about the railroad robber barons. I think we spent a week or so on the civil war, and never really made it to the World Wars. Interesting, considering current news from the business world.
:barf:

 

[munk]

The problem with kids is not what I would call lack of self appreciation. They appreciate themselves just fine.

I know this is a paradox issue, where either way of seeing the problem is valid.

munk

 

[Tohatchi NM]

Originally posted by munk
The problem with kids is not what I would call lack of self appreciation. They appreciate themselves just fine.

I think I agree with you...appreciate wasn't necessarily the right word, but it was handy at the time.

A little more detail - it takes a seriously twisted person to gun somebody down when they are not in physical danger (one of the reasons war is so psychologically hard on vets, but another topic). And recently there have been incidents where kids in school kill people either randomly, or after provocations that are extremely minimal or tangental. That speaks of deep psychological turmoil, probably a product of innumerable environmental influences - poor role models, poor parenting, diet, herbicides, the hole in the ozone layer. Many kids appreciate themselves, but they don't see themselves as intrinsically valuable or worth something. As a consequence, other people aren't worth anything, so there's no harm in murder. They aren't worth anything, so spending the rest of life in jail is of no consequence. Their victims aren't worth anything, so why shouldn't they be dead. That statement is certainly colored by living on a reservation - amid a culture that's been beaten down, with very few positive role models for kids, many just don't have any plans or goals beyond just getting by.

There's also the other end of the spectrum. I believe I've read about violent people who are extremely narcissistic. They certainly don't have any self-worth issues! It's dangerous to generalize, and I'm not a psychologist (I just play one at work )

Back to the original topic: Americans feel very protected and safe. Even the littlest tragedy is enough to shake our foundations. (Note: this was definitely true pre-9/11, and is probably still true with regards to things like schools. I don't believe that most Americans feel deeply threatened. Consider the situation of the kamis: they have been rattled enough by the Maoists to actually make AND ship knives far below their level of skill and quality standards (read - knives that fail) I doubt that most of the American population is that unnerved. MHO, YMMV). When someone brings a gun to school (object of extreme fear for a good slice of the population) let alone use it, parents want to do anything possible to restore and preserve that image of safety. If someone said that wearing purple underwear with yellow smiley faces would stop gun violence, I bet within a week 10% of the schools in the country would mandate purple underwear and have daily inspections, and there'd be a whole lot more waiting in line. In fact, maybe I should buy an underwear company and start spreading "research data". It's not any more absurd than the ban on drawing pictures of weapons.

 

[Bill Martino]

Interesting and I believe astute observations.

 

[munk]

That speaks of deep psychological turmoil, probably a product of innumerable environmental influences - poor role models, poor parenting, diet, herbicides, the hole in the ozone layer. Many kids appreciate themselves, but they don't see themselves as intrinsically valuable or worth something. As a consequence, other people aren't worth anything, so there's no harm in murder. >>> ToHatch NM

I hope most of your 'products' were meant more tongue in cheek. Ozone layer, pesticides, preservatives?

As I said, you can flip this around; no self esteem, too much self esteem...

We have raised the worst values within us to equality with the best. We're fubar. This is Rome. A quick cure would be real jobs. But that is only temporary. We need a miracle.

There really isn't another end of the spectrum. When the rewards of a society are insufficient for participation, the alternative is narcisim. Sociopathy. Dogs, packs of dogs.

You can instill upon your students self meaning, but unless they see the outside world as having value there is little point. Recent scholastic tests with American students showed deteriorating performance compared to the world but they scored highest on measures of self worth. We've taught our children it is great to be mediocre, and even convinced ourselves average is outstanding.

munk, another long post no one will read...blasting his way courageously towards blather..