A couple beginner questions

R

rem

Joined
Jul 14, 2007
Messages
48
Hello,

I decided I wanted to give knife making a try. I just find it amazing that such artistic creations can be made from a piece of steel. From what I have gathered, it is not really a complex process either. Just need practice, practice, practice. I have already purchased Wayne Goddard's "$50 Knife Shop" and read the stickies in this forum. I will be using the stock removal method first, and later on I will get into forging. I plan on buying a belt sander and a wet sharpener from Harbor Freight, I know they are not the best but it's a start. I figured I could probably get better bevels with the belt sander as opposed to a bench grinder, but I may be wrong. I would appreciate any pros and cons about the tools I am getting, so I have included links to the specific ones that I will purchase. Of course I will buy a few files as well.

"4" x 36" BELT/6'' DISC SANDER"
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93981

"SLOW SPEED WET SHARPENER SYSTEM"
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95236

One last question. There are so many different types of steel available, which would be the best to start with for a novice? Which would be the easiest to work with? I will be ordering from Admiral Steel.

Thank you for all your help.
 
Hi, and welcome.

I have the 4x36 you are looking at, and in my opinion it's junk. They used to sell a different 4x36 that had less horsepower, but is a far better tool. The one you are listing is too east to stall the motor. I mean REALLY easy there are multiple other issues with it, but frankly, I cannot remember what they are because I haven't used it in almost a year.

If I was starting over I and was on a pretty tight budget, I would get the 1x30 they sell, and an angle grinder. Angle grinder can be used as a cut off tool, as well as hogging off metal MUCH better than the sander you listed. Also, the disks are like a buck or something, and last quite a while. Belts aren't cheap.

If you go with the sander you listed, get a ceramic tile or something to jb weld to your platen, I would say to use pyroceramic glass, which I did, but the sander isn't worth it. Be sure to add some kind of 'stop or lip' at the end of the tile in case the jbweld fails. If it lets go while the belt is spinning it will ruin your day.

The ceramic platen will help in several ways:
First, it will lessen the 'bump' from the belt seam (it's really noticeable on this grinder).

It will let you grind much flatter than the thin sheet metal that comes on it.

It will allow you to run the belt off to the side a bit and get a decent plunge cut. You really can't get that on the stock grinder because the edge is rounded, but sticks out farther than the belt.

you will get a small slack portion at the end of the glass that will allow you to get a bit of a convex on your edge.

The 4 x 36 is pretty good at getting your distal taper in your blades though, ad you have a lot of surface area to slide the knife around on.

I ground maybe a dozen knives on my 4 x 36's and really wish I had bought the 1x30 and the angle grinder instead.

Whichever grinder you decide on, check out supergrit for belts. the Aluminum oxide ones you can get at Harbor freight are pretty poor, and seem to stop cutting quickly. I suggest zarconia or better yet ceramic for steel.

I just received my 10" Coot yesterday :) , so I'm off to fire it up.

I hope this helps.
 
$190 will get you a lot to start making knives with, but I wouldn't buy either of these tools. The files will be a great start and if you buy quality ones, they will remove stock faster than the belt sander and they won't get it hot all the time. The angle grinder and 1x30 are both fine ideas, the angle grinder works incredibly well for cutting off stock and profiling it, just get cutoff wheels and a couple grinding discs, it won't cost you $30 for all of it from HF. The 1x30 will be fine for handle material, cleaning up your profile, removing sharp edges, etc, but I would "flat grind" your knives with files. You will wear out belts faster than you think on these little sanders and it adds up quickly.

You can sharpen your knives with the belt sander and a leather strop with buffing compound, a butcher's steel, or a buffer (if you are a little more daring). So, you don't particularly need the sharpening tool. If you insist on having a system, I'd get a cheaper Lansky system like this one: http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=LS1

I'd use the extra money to get a drill press and a decent bench vise, you're not likely to outgrow them.

On a side note, if you've got enough for the tools you've listed, you might want to hold off a little longer and get a Coote or Grizzly grinder. Even most folks who forge their knives have a 2x72 grinder. The belts last longer and you can do many grinding techniques just not available with a belt sander.

Just my thoughts.
 
Thank you Airborne Steel. I'm glad I didn't buy that junk belt sander. The cermaic platen sounds like a good idea, I'll do that to whichever belt grinder I decide on. And I bookmarked that Supergrit site.

AcridSaint, is there any specific brand of files that you would recommend? I checked out the Coote site and they want $355 for their 2"x6"x48" belt grinder, and that is without a pulley or motor. I might get one when I get better, but I can't afford one right now.

I forgot to mention, I already have a cut off saw and a drill press.

Would a nice big 10" bench grinder be better than an angle grinder?

I have about $300 to spend on tools to start off. It looks like I was all wrong on the ones I was going to get, so any advice on what I should get would be greatly appreciated.

I apologize for all these dumb questions but I feel totally lost.

Thank you.
 
I found the 1 x 30 worthless for grinding blades , the 1 x 42 worked so-so but ate up belts fast , have you looked at the 2 x 42 craftsman ? sometimes it is on sale for $100.
My biggest mistake when I got started was using to thick of a material for that 1 x 42 , it just takes forever to do the grinds on a 3/16 thick piece of 01 , 1/8 inch worked much better.

so for $100 on sale or $125 reg price you could get the 2 x 42 from sears , get a small drill press from HF for $50 or so and also get hand files , belts , etc with the left over $$$.

What part of Vegas are you in ?

I started with a 1 x 42 and a 4 x 36 , they still get used in the shop even though I have a 2 x 72 Bader.
 
homedepot has a simmilar belt sander that works much better made by ryobi for 100$
 
I agree that the Coote is definitely more money, my idea was that it might be worth waiting a bit longer and just using files. A motor that's decent to get started with won't cost too much, but it is definitely a big investment. Don't want to rush you into a big purchase, just throwing the idea out there in case it would have been possible. I understand not having enough money for knives, I'm married afterall.

I want to reiterate that I agree completely with John and do not suggest the 1x30 for grinding blades, only to clean some things up, work handle materials and perhaps sharpen. A 1x42 or 2x42 will also work, but I'd personally use files and hold out for a 2x72.

The files I would buy are the Craftsman ones from Sears, or Nicholson files. The Sears files are just rebranded Nicholsons, from what I hear, but they'll replace them if you break or dull them. So any files that you'll use regularly, especially one to hog off the steel, I would first try to find at Sears since you'll only buy it once. Don't be fooled, you will wear out files so it's worth paying for that insurance.

The upside to the files is that you won't have to clean up as many scratches and it's a lot harder to screw up badly with them. Goddard has a bit in his book on how to properly file, have a good look at it if you feel that things are going too slow. I can remove a lot of steel quite quickly with a sharp, quality file.

Hope it helps,
Cap
 
Forgot to say something about the bench grinder. You will be able to clean up your profiles with one, but you won't be able to do nearly as much cutting out with it. I think the cutoff wheels on the angle grinder are very useful, even if you have a cutoff saw.
 
I will second the motion to get the files. I started out with them and still use them frequently. I also started on a cheap 4x36. The files were better than the 4x36.

I recently managed to get a Coote 2x72x10. While it has really stepped up the quality of the product I can make, it is also expensive for a poor boy.

You might find forging less expensive than you think. I pickup a small forge at an auction for $20. That and a piece of steel I-beam or railroad track for an anvil will get you started. You will want to get good coal.

In any event, get started with whatever you can. You are right "practice" will get you a long way.
 
Welcome Rem

I am part of the 'angle grinder brigade' too. I think especially to start off with it is a very easy and efficient way to go.. It makes neat plunge cuts, enables you to easily make slight hollow grinds (which i think look nice on a knife) . You can do full stock removal with just one disc so it works out much cheaper. Probably the most important aspect to me is that the face of the knife that you are working is toward you so its easier (for a beginner) to see how the grind is progressing, and to maintain consistency with angles etc
Obviously a good secure machine vice is also important.

Good luck

Lang
 
I don't want to step on any toes, but I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not advocate grinding your knife with an angle grinder, just cutting and profiling. I believe you will spend more time cleaning up the uneven surface and learning how to control a 10k rpm disc to grind a fairly precise blade than you will learning how to file properly. Filing is something that will continue to be useful to you after you move onto more sophisticated equipment. Grinding your blade with an angle grinder, while being quite a feat and something I could not personally manage, is not a skill that will come in handy once you get better equipment.

I also believe that you will find yourself working around your tools if you start pushing power tools into places that they really don't belong. The real downside here is that you may not be able to realize it until well after the fact.
 
You all are great, I have gotten a ton of excellent information and as a beginner this makes me feel a lot better about knife making. You all know how to make someone feel welcomed, thank you.

I have decided to forgo the whole Harbor Freight tools idea and get a Craftsman 8 piece file set, a Craftsman 6 piece needle file set and a Craftsman 2 x 42 with some ceramic belts from supergrit to clean up profiles and bevels.

John T Wylie Jr, I'm in South East Vegas. And I do plan on starting with 1/8" stock.

Thanks again for all the help, guys.
 
Here's another vote for the "Use files 'till you can afford a nicer grinder" idea. I've made 10 knives with files now, and it really doesn't take long to bevel with a nice sharp flat file. (Maybe 30-50 minutes a side to do a good job) And even if you put a stroke in the wrong place, it won't take long to fix the mistake later. If you mess up on the grinder (Like I did when I first tried the 1x30 I have laying around) it can really almost ruin a blade then and there.
 
I think you'll have a good start with your tools. There are several good makers out your way too, I'd check them out if you have a chance.
 
welcome
Hey,, just wondering ?
was it you that emailed me back some time ago? or someone mentioning you maybe??
Rem and Vegas sounds real familiar
I send a lot of guys that email me about making here for added info....

if it was you, I see you made it. :thumbup:
if it wasn't you I'm glad to see you made it here :thumbup: :D
 
Hello, Mr. Gray.

It was not me, but thank you for the welcome. :)

John T Wylie Jr, I forgot to mention, I live right next door to Henderson. :thumbup:
 
Welcome Rem:
It's always good to see good makers coming on in. Please check out my site for more information. Have a great day in what ever you do in life. ---------:thumbup:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top