A couple "different" questions

T

thegeek574

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Sep 3, 2010
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I never have been one to ask mundane questions, have I? Note: even if you don't know the answer, I would be interested to hear your opinion. Well, here goes.

1. I was sitting in Geology 101 today (I needed one more lab science, and this was the one that fit my schedule), and the teacher mentioned something interesting. He said that carbon was the same in all it's varied iterations, from graphite, which you can break with your hand, to diamond, the hardest substance known to man. What is keeping us from putting a few pencils in an iron billet to add carbon? It's all carbon, so what makes one type more desirable than the other? In fact, what do smelters put in steel to add carbon?

2. No more of this hypothetical crap :D. I was wondering what everyone's preference was to forging steel. What is your favorite, just from forging perspective? which ones work the easiest, and what quirks are there to know about for them? It is dry as a bone out here in Oregon, and so I haven't forged for a while, but when I do, I have some O1, 1084 and some other stuff to try. However, I want to branch out eventually, so hearing everyone's favorites might give me a place to start.

Thanks,
Steven
 
1) Carbon is Carbon, but the arrangement of the atoms varies. That is why a diamond is far different from soot or graphite.
Any form of carbon could be used to add during smelting, but charcoal is clean and cheap. BTW, pencils aren't just graphite.... they are about half clay.
Adding carbon to steel takes temperature control and oxygen exclusion. It isn't as simple as putting a piece of coal in the forge and heating some iron and having it suck in the carbon.

2)1084FG from Aldo is superb forging steel. Cruforge V is similar and also good, but I think it has been discontinued. When you are ready for some more complex forging work, W-2 is a good choice. It's HT is much trickier than 1084, though.
 
Ok. Understood. I have some 1084 and I am working on it, but I was curious as to other people's preferences. As far as HT goes, I'm not crazy enough to try anything other than 1084 for the time being.
 
bladsmth said:
Adding carbon to steel takes temperature control and oxygen exclusion. It isn't as simple as putting a piece of coal in the forge and heating some iron and having it suck in the carbon.
Click to expand...

This is how we got into technologies such as damascus steel and case hardening. Older metallurgy technologies could not get carbon throughout the steel, it could only penetrate partly into the surface. Folding and forging was a way to end up with carbon throughout the steel, case hardening was a way to harden the outside wearing surface of the steel.
 
I really enjoy threads like this. Just saying. ;) Also, don't be afraid to get into 1095 and 1075. Yea, the HT starts to get a little trickier, but once you have your method and its solid, you can do great things. And pull some awesome hamons, if that is what you're into. I'm just into looking at the hamons and idly hoping one day I'll have the time to make knives. :D
 
Steven, I think Stacy pretty much covered the carbon inclusion process. Not practical for a beginner smith. However in the future you might be able to smelt your own iron ore then introduce the carbon and make your own steel. But lets keep that on the back burner for now.

Well you should have plenty of rain now. I know we do. Fire up the forge and get going. I like W-2 the most. It forges easily and heat treats with minimal problems. It takes a wicked edge and holds it for a long time. Then 1084, 5160, and most of the others. If you are looking for simplicity 5160 has been used for years and makes a very serviceable blade. In fact more knives have been made with 5160 that passed the JS test than an other steel. Now it is not to say that other steel won't out perform it, it is just easily heat treated and easily obtainable.

Good luck and keep on thinking. It is how we all learn. Now go forge something. :D
 
Believe me, I would if I could. However, it has been dry forever, and we live on an orchard. It needs to rain for a bit before I am going to be firing anything up. Dad says 3 days of good, solid rain, and so that is what I am going with. Then, it's off to the races. I should also be getting a new toy in the upcoming weeks. Stay tuned :D

As far as the carbon goes, thanks for the help and guidance. I wasn't even considering trying to smelt my own, but I was curious about the process. You guys answered my questions admirably.

You should be seeing some more activity out of me soon. I plan on doing a run of slippies to practice. I need something for days when I can't forge.
 
The carbon story has just begun ! Fine pencils are made of graphite and polymer as clay is too brittle for fine leads.
Bucky balls , graphite nano tubes ,interesting ! Then cut the tubes into sheets and get graphene .That's a one atom thick layer of graphite with extraordinary properties .make me a blade of it !! The world of graphene is just being looked at .Science gets more and more interesting !
 
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