A Couple Morans

Kevin-

Somehow, my last post got truncated. I had typed up a few of the other knives I just pulled out of safe #2 (all of which somehow disappeared - user error??), including two Herron hunters, a couple of Herron fighters, a Herron subhilt, three more Morans including an ST-23, and other surprises. Now, if I can only get the time to use Fototime..........

EDIT - I remember that Geraldo story!
 
betzner said:
Kevin-

Somehow, my last post got truncated. I had typed up a few of the other knives I just pulled out of safe #2 (all of which somehow disappeared - user error??), including two Herron hunters, a couple of Herron fighters, a Herron subhilt, three more Morans including an ST-23, and other surprises. Now, if I can only get the time to use Fototime..........

EDIT - I remember that Geraldo story!
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Geraldo kept me from potentially getting a little bit of that good old Hot Monkey Love the night that abortion of a show ran, because the girl I was out with insisted on going to her house after a VERY expensive dinner to watch the damn thing with her parents and little sister!!!!:mad::eek: Back to our regularly scheduled program.......you MUST post a pic of the ST23:thumbup::D
 
betzner said:
Kevin-

Somehow, my last post got truncated. I had typed up a few of the other knives I just pulled out of safe #2 (all of which somehow disappeared - user error??), including two Herron hunters, a couple of Herron fighters, a Herron subhilt, three more Morans including an ST-23, and other surprises. Now, if I can only get the time to use Fototime..........

EDIT - I remember that Geraldo story!
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It's much better to lose them here in type, than out of your safe. :eek: ;) :)

I would like to see the others, especially the ST-23.
 
It will be awhile before I actually extract them and have them set to image, just not sure when. I am pretty certain it won't be in this thread, however.
 
betzner said:
The Bowie with escutcheon has a walnut handle and the other a cocobolo handle.
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Moran's standard handle material for this model (and many others) was Rosewood. He was noted to occasionally mention "dark Rosewood." Whether this was naturally dark Rosewood or dark stained Rosewood isn't clear.

Customers could request different handle materials but the only options mentioned in the catalog wherein this model was listed were Curly Maple, Ebony and Lignum Vitae - all at a $6 premium, except for two piece slab handles which ranged from $12-$24 extra depending on size. Inlaid Sterling Silver Shields were $12.50.

I did find elsewhere a reference to Walnut as a handle choice for no extra charge - likewise Hickory though Moran felt Hickory offered no inherent beauty and only used if if requested. I find no reference to Cocobolo during the time frame in question though that doesn't exclude its use.

From the photographs posted I personally can't determine the wood type with certainty and therefore trust the owner's judgement on this.

I would suggest looking carefully for sheaths made by Moran for these knives amongst the other items in the safe(s). Moran's sheaths were expensive for their time, but very well made and naturally enhance the value of any Moran knife. Additionally, paperwork such as the brochure/catalog and/or price list pertinent to these knives would also increase their value significantly when considered as a package - 2 knives, 2 sheaths and documentation would be a truly great find!

I highly recommend getting a copy of Master of the Forge: William F. Moran, Jr. and his Classic Blades by B.R. Hughes and Houston Price. Knife World is my preferred source for all knife-related books: http://www.knifeworld.com/ It is a truly amazing book with interesting text, many quotes by Moran and photography that is mind-blowing for the pre-digital era. The vast majority of the knives featured in Master of the Forge are truly mint blades. Anyone who is of the opinion that Bill Moran produced what was essentially folk-art quality knives will believe differently after perusing this wonderful book.

Many people favor Moran's ST24 model but if I could have my choice it would be one of his fancy daggers: The Cinquedea, European Stiletto, Poignard, Quillon or Viking Dagger, with Damascus steel, naturally.
 
Hi Buddy - thanks for all the great input. First, let me say I have the original sheaths to both knives, both in excellent condition. And you have solved the wood issues for me completely. One is definitely walnut. The other, which I referred to as cocobolo, is definitely rosewood. I often use cocobolo to refer to very figured rosewood. One side of the handle has a reasonable amount of figuring, so I chose to say cocobolo instead of rosewood. It is defiinitely rosewood.

We had documents on most all of our purchases and am hoping that as I search through all the papers in the safe, something will come forward. Just not sure at this point. But the sheaths are covered, got 'em both, and now the wood question in my mind is answered. Thanks very, very much for your expert information.

Bob Betzner

EDIT: I needed to do a quick bit of research. I had always been taught that cocobolo was, indeed, a rosewood, but did not wish to so indicate until I could find the right source, which I did. To quote, "The cocobolo, dalbergia retusa, is the most dense and strongest of all the rosewoods". So I suppose rosewood is now, without question, the wood in the second handle. Thanks again for your help.
 
Yep, I had heard cocobolo was part of the rosewood family. It's one of my favorite wood handle materials and I wish we saw more of it. Perhaps the reason we don't is that it's common for makers to have adverse reactions to it's dust. Have to be careful when working it.
 
Kevin Jones said:
To bad Geraldo's Al Capone safe story didn't turn out as well. :foot:
Don't think his career ever really recovered from that. ;) :D
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I know I was EXTREMELY disappointed by what was (or wasn't perhaps more appropriately) found in the Capone safe.

Seem's like Betzner's safe would be far more exciting:D

Peter
 
Kevin Jones said:
Yep, I had heard cocobolo was part of the rosewood family. It's one of my favorite wood handle materials and I wish we saw more of it. Perhaps the reason we don't is that it's common for makers to have adverse reactions to it's dust. Have to be careful when working it.
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Right there with you. Top grade cocobolo is equal to any DI.
 
I am hoping one of you is able to give me an idea which of these two knives is the more desirable one. I intend to keep at least one of these, having given it considerable thought, and am certain I would wish to retain the one which is more desirable.. Thanks much, guys, for all your input.
 
The original plan for both safes was to sell everything. But with what I have been finding in the second safe, I realize I would be foolish to sell the entire contents. I really would like to keep one of the Morans, the history is just so damn compelling that having one would give some kind of historical significance to a bit of my collection, rather than just having a bunch of eye candy. So I guess the answer to your question is that one of these will more than likely depart. They are so similar in both condition and style that it is difficult to decide which, however

EDIT: They each have their own attributes for keeping, which makes the decision even more complicated. I seem to have a greater affinity to the shorter, wider blade rather than the one with the escutcheon/shield, partly because the sheath is in a bit better conditon, though there is a well-repaired chip in the handle, about 3/8" oval. Both have very light sheath marks, very little carbon spotting at all.
 
Talk with Jay Hendricksen for info about these knives. That's where I'd start.

Pete
 
Thanks, Pete. I live on the central California coast so I am only an hour or so from Solvang. I go to the show each year and had planned on talking to Jay. I understand he pretty much knows the entire Moran collector crowd, and with his background with Moran, should be an excellent source of information.
 
I started looking at customs a little to late IMO, and when I discovered Bill Moran (who was still alive, but had a very long waiting list) I just didnt have the Money. Boy if I only knew the relativity of cost then...Bills knives are the most Beautiful knives in existance IMHO. You have an amazing collection. Thank you for sharing.
 
If you are only gonna keep one I would keep the larger of the two. Great knives thanks for posting
 
Thanks, JP, you are the second one who suggested I keep the larger, it also being the one with a shield. All this info is helping me greatly and I really appreciate all the input!!
 
Anyone who is going to the Solvang show can easily see these knives up close and personal. They will be available to see at an exhibitor's table, beginning either late Friday or first thing Saturday.
 
betzner said:
Anyone who is going to the Solvang show can easily see these knives up close and personal. They will be available to see at an exhibitor's table, beginning either late Friday or first thing Saturday.
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who's table?
 
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