Great questions here - let me see if I can shed some light, or do what I usually do, create even more confusion - here we go.
If you read the Collins and Co thread, you will know that Collins indeed did have many many different lines of axes out over the years. Some with intricate labels, some with imprints with descriptions and many words, and then some with just COLLINS with the box around it. This can get very confusing as to which one was "top line", and then what was middle grade, and what was sub par grade. Other catalogs from manufacturers (like Mann and Warren) I have looked at make it very clear, while Collins does not. You also had the impact of Collins absorbing other manufacturers, and then continuing those lines just to keep that part of the business - Old Timer and Red Seal come to mind, that was an old James Mann line I do believe.
Anyway, back to what were the quality lines of Collins, and the Legitimus vs non legitimus Collins. First, the lines as I understand them and have read them.
Legitimus to me was the logo that Collins was all about - I am not sure if all Legitimus products are high end caliber, but I would think that they would be of good quality and grade. They had contracts with the military in WW2 to provide knives, machetes, and some axes, and the vast majority of those were stamped with the logo. This was also "free" advertising to the troops that would one day come back home and thus remember the Legitimus name, and hopefully have some brand recognition and loyalty. Anything that I have with a Legitimus logo seems to be of fine quality. The double bits, single bits, boys axes, jerseys, knives, and machetes I have with this logo all appear to be of fine quality. One thing I do believe is true, though I am working to find this out for 100% fact is, that I do not believe Mann Edge used the Legitimus logo when they took over Collins. I will verify this somehow, one way or another.
The Homestead line was around a long time. I would classify this is a middle line, a true user line. I have one with the paper label still intact, and one without, and the steel is not the same as a Legitimus, Red Seal, or one that just says Collins. Nothing wrong with it, I just take it to be a middle of the line quality axe. The later Homestead line(s) seem to go downhill in quality, and I attribute this to the lack of demand for the axe as we got into the late 1950s and then 60s, and the manufacturing processes either went into other lines, or the quality control went down to try and provide a product with a more attractive price point so they could try and sell it.
The other lines, such as Red Seal, Red Knight, Commander, I believe are in the same boat as Homestead. Red Knight and Commander were lines that were supplied to distributors for them to then sell to retailers. As time went on, and as above, you get into the 60s, 70s, 80s, the quality goes down. I have a Collins catalog from 1988, and you can see with your own eyes the quality is not what it used to be, or is today with the Council Velvicut lines. I am sure the lack of demand had everything to do with this.
Now, on to the other part of the question, the Collins in the box decal which is just as common if not more common than the Legitimus logo. This seems to have been used from the start of the company all the way up to the end, and even after Mann Edge took over. I have seen the quality vary on these greatly, and as already said it has to do with the age, the older the better quality. I have a boys axe and a regular sb 3.5 lb with the COLLINS name in the box, and they are of both excellent quality. I have seen others at flea markets and I even bought one online one time, with the Collins in the box, and it had the "M" mark on the back meaning it was made in mexico, and it of course is of very suspect quality. the only thing I can tell you here is that you have to look twice, and get your hands on it if you can. I can tell the ones made in mexico in about 3 seconds. On the toe and the heel the metal will be uneven and have a funky grind to it. The polls are not uniform, and if it "NOS" it is about as sharp as the chunk of wood you are going to use it on.
The real quality Collins axes that I have all have the Legitimus logo on them, and then say Hartford. The following pic is an example - the imprint is worn and you can see the arm and hammer and crown logo but not very well -
Axes with this mark, or the same mark but then also warranted seem to be of the best quality Collins axes I have run across. This is just my opinion based off of handling them and all the others. The one shown is a cruiser, and its a brusier let me tell you. I search these ones out in the Collins line first, as they seem to be older, and of higher quality.
Well hope this helps. Any other info would be great as well.
Thanks!
Mike
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), but to the collector the product line is paramount.
