A different view of ''survival''

grafton said:
I guess it comes down to getting to a point where you do not have to worry about yourself/family and only have to worry about other people....
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That's got me wondering about a transition. It starts with the simple sense of remaining an effective agent in the environment and moves more toward a proactive insurance policy aimed at maximizing the chances or retaining ones power, status and leverage in a community just by substituting what was for different types of information and resources. Mmmm, needs more thought.
 
Dont get me wrong. I agree that if something manmade or natural comes along and causes a citywide,statewide nationwide ETC calamity; the initial dieoff will be inevitable,hyperviolent, and something i plan to be far from.I will be long gone when an organized group comes to loot my former home. I`ve done a bug out in dry runs with the family, and on one occasion that fortunately turned out to be bad intel. but i will not force any level of my unpreparedness to cause others harm whenever i unintentionally come in conact.I plan to be out and make zero contact with anyone as things develop.If i dont prepare now, i wont expect to make it then. I also wont be hanging out handing people cookies trying to keep them alive as i have also had the friends and family members say "we dont worry about any of that because if anything happens were coming to your house". Well they all get the same speech.... and we dont get invited over very often anymore.It`s hilarious to pop somebodys bubble when they show you their "bug out bag" and then you ask them where they plan to go. it`s usually "out of town" or "into the woods". then i ask... what then. where is the nearest open water source? what if you and wife are at work...you gonna wait or she gonna meet you? after the 2 cases of MRE`s and case of bottled water are gone and you made it to the woods, what next? Shoot food huh? ever hunt before? no? bummer. Yes? awesome...where are you gonna put the meat? can you preserve meat without a freezer..or do you plan to shoot an elk everyday for 3 squares a day? What about all the other people who did the same and heard the gunshots Or saw your fire, or your vehicle, or you
...and want what you have for their families?
 
SERE 9601 said:
I`ve done a bug out in dry runs with the family
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As someone who plans on the "bugging out" scenario, how do you plan to accomplish this with millions of panicky folks also bugging out, in every conceivable direction?
I mean, it sounds okay in theory, but just look at the traffic jams on a regular day in any large city. Any disaster would make it inconceivably worse. Roads, bridges, even fields would be jam packed with people.
 
baldtaco-II said:
That's got me wondering about a transition. It starts with the simple sense of remaining an effective agent in the environment and moves more toward a proactive insurance policy aimed at maximizing the chances or retaining ones power, status and leverage in a community just by substituting what was for different types of information and resources. Mmmm, needs more thought.
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Mmmm, needs more though is right, Higgins. Use smaller words please. I wish I was smart enough to know what you just said. :D
 
grafton said:
Mmmm, needs more though is right, Higgins. Use smaller words please. I wish I was smart enough to know what you just said. :D
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You're smart enough to defeat me with what a Higgins might be. See, “he that commands the most resources gets to make the most rules”. ;-)
 
Higgins was a Magnum P.I. reference....he spoke in a similar fashion as the way you wrote that post.....hard to describe unless you are familiar with the old TV show...
 
Survivalist is great for books and movies and has unfortunately become a negative label. I like to just think of myself as being “prudently prepared”. It just makes common sense to have some insurance in the form of a savings account, stocked pantry, potable water and some means to secure and defend yourself and your family. I would also add that situations that could impact anybody would include a financial disaster (losing your job, injury, bad health diagnosis or loss of insurance, etc), house fire, tornado threats, shut in by severe ice storms or evacuated by a hurricane, flood or wild fire threat; it could also be a man-made cause such as a chemical spill, loss of electricity or a local riot caused from political/environmental issues to loss of jobs.

We often focus on the probable survival scenario when out backpacking/hiking a remote area, but the underlying factors remain the same whether it’s a recreational trip, business trip, working from home or just running errands on the weekend. Maintaining your situational awareness; identifying potential risks and mitigating through proper preparation, skills, training and the right equipment are what it’s all about.

I would add that the more independent you are of technology, the better off you’ll be for the worse-case scenario. However, you can’t just focus on the worse case; you really need to do the proper analysis on the “most likely” which are those issues that are more common in your area. Red Dawn is a fun scenario to discuss with buddies and beer around the campfire, but there are any number of crisis that affect us seasonally that could become a more serious threat based in reality and should be paid more attention. I find it funny that our older generations were much more prepared; stocked food for the winter, had the means or access to water, avoided flood plains or hazardous living areas and lived within their means…Today, we call this paranoia or label these activities and people as “survivalist” or “prepper”. I’ll stick with being “prudently prepared”. Every region in the US has environmental and seasonal threats; ignoring those potential threats could easily turn into your worse-cased survival scenario where you are unprepared mentally, physically and emotionally. You can really reduce the potential of those threats with just a modicum of situational awareness and maintaining the proper mindset, proper skillset and proper “toolset”. Again, it’s not an extreme measure in any way; it’s just applying a little common sense planning given the history of what has happened in the past.

If being “prudently prepared” is abnormal, than you’re most likely mocking the lives of your grandparents and great-grandparents who have survived more than our generations have ever experienced...and even the most educated know that history and Mother Nature have an uncanny way of repeating themselves.

ROCK6
 
For me survival is to get out of an emergency situation
it is not a long term living style

My 'get out of Dodge' is real and actual
Rockets from Hisbolah emptied my town over a 72 hour time period
There was no mass leaving just a solid drifting out of town as the conditions became too difficult
20 thousand folk left for about a month

My other senario is an Earthquake, which is a reality also
Where there would be a catastophic break down of services

So I have food, water and shelter that would last quite a few days, until the Emergency Services can respond.
 
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Survive? Nah!!! Better to burn out than to fade away!
highlander-kurgan.jpg
 
ROCK6 said:
Survivalist is great for books and movies and has unfortunately become a negative label. I like to just think of myself as being “prudently prepared”. It just makes common sense to have some insurance in the form of a savings account, stocked pantry, potable water and some means to secure and defend yourself and your family. I would also add that situations that could impact anybody would include a financial disaster (losing your job, injury, bad health diagnosis or loss of insurance, etc), house fire, tornado threats, shut in by severe ice storms or evacuated by a hurricane, flood or wild fire threat; it could also be a man-made cause such as a chemical spill, loss of electricity or a local riot caused from political/environmental issues to loss of jobs.We often focus on the probable survival scenario when out backpacking/hiking a remote area, but the underlying factors remain the same whether it’s a recreational trip, business trip, working from home or just running errands on the weekend. Maintaining your situational awareness; identifying potential risks and mitigating through proper preparation, skills, training and the right equipment are what it’s all about.I would add that the more independent you are of technology, the better off you’ll be for the worse-case scenario. However, you can’t just focus on the worse case; you really need to do the proper analysis on the “most likely” which are those issues that are more common in your area. Red Dawn is a fun scenario to discuss with buddies and beer around the campfire, but there are any number of crisis that affect us seasonally that could become a more serious threat based in reality and should be paid more attention. I find it funny that our older generations were much more prepared; stocked food for the winter, had the means or access to water, avoided flood plains or hazardous living areas and lived within their means…Today, we call this paranoia or label these activities and people as “survivalist” or “prepper”. I’ll stick with being “prudently prepared”. Every region in the US has environmental and seasonal threats; ignoring those potential threats could easily turn into your worse-cased survival scenario where you are unprepared mentally, physically and emotionally. You can really reduce the potential of those threats with just a modicum of situational awareness and maintaining the proper mindset, proper skillset and proper “toolset”. Again, it’s not an extreme measure in any way; it’s just applying a little common sense planning given the history of what has happened in the past.If being “prudently prepared” is abnormal, than you’re most likely mocking the lives of your grandparents and great-grandparents who have survived more than our generations have ever experienced...and even the most educated know that history and Mother Nature have an uncanny way of repeating themselves.ROCK6
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It's certainly an interesting can of worms. I've found that kind of funny too and have written as much myself, but the more I think about it the less strange it seems. For me a central function of preparedness or the survival mindset is autonomy. The objective being to reduce the dependency on other factors and be master of ones own destiny, or at least to take as much control over it as possible. And that is exactly what wasn't true of previous generations. Sure some of them higher up the pecking order had a great deal of control but the majority of plebs didn't. They were mostly tenant workers, cogs, disposable as piston rods, with little or no say over much of anything. Whilst the landowner had power most of the people under him were just puppets on a string, Baldrics in a hovel with their very own turnip, just as much at the mercy of the vacillations of others as they were nature. For a man injury spelled disaster. And for a woman, especially a pregnant one, the poorhouse and the church would provide a quality of life that many people now would probably consider not worth living. It strikes me that in the move to be liberated from the horrors of that people readily gave up the skills for what may happen in exchange for more personal power to deal with what was happening to them. They scraped off the landowner and the extended family to chase self rule. If that meant living in track housing and not knowing how to sew or grow turnips then so be it. When viewed like that I think it is less strange than it first appeared to me. I think I had made the mistake of always projecting myself into that time from a similar sort of position that I am in now. I didn't give much thought to the grimness of being a child being motivated to go up a chimney, only that chimney sweeps like thatchers are few and far between in the Yellow Pages these days. A dying craft............................................................................................................................................I'm somewhat in agreement with you on the technology dependence thing to a point. My business partner makes the case so boldly to me on a regular basis it is hard to ignore. In fact I can think of no better example. He and I are opposites in many ways. He knows little of the outdoors, can't work a paint brush, takes his tredder to the shop to have a gear cable fitted, that kind of thing. He too keeps a place near Brighton for the purposes of work. Unlike me his place there is at the top of a block of apartments. To call him techno would be an understatement. His place is crammed with some pretty hardcore electronics and great zot is he ever dispassionate information processor. I would never have teamed up with him if he didn't have excellence in that field. He is far superior to me at that. The thing is I can't imagine how he could function there in the event of a simple protracted power cut. I doubt he's ever given it much thought 'cos he's never had one. Weirds me out 'cos I have, and water shortage, and petrol shortage stranding me during a fuel strike. I intuitively find his cavalier attitude as odd as he finds my attitude to perfecting a knife 'till it can do what I want it to do. Still, I find him reasonable and proportionate in his responses. Why should he change his lifestyle and devote a great deal of brain power and resources to something that is almost certainly never going to happen to him. Why worry. He makes a watertight case.........................................................................................................A thing I would take issue with is the blanket assertion that independence of technology necessarily makes one better off in a worse case scenario. I don't believe that is true. Sure it can look that way at a glance. My old Singer sewing machine is a far better device in that respect that the one I usually use. In fact there's a roaring trade in rounding those up and exporting them to third world countries for exactly that reason. And a log fire is more free than mains gas that is getting pumped here from Russia and so on. That said, the modern trend toward self sufficiency and getting off the grid uses a hell of a lot of technology. Gone is the sackcloth and ashes “The Good Life” approach to self sufficiency and the failing eyesight and fumes from an inefficient oil lamp. Colonel Dick Strwbridge's place at Newhouse Farm springs to mind for one.
 
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For my grandparents- surviving the Great Depression in SW Virginia had more to do with skills than perperation or hoarding. I keep enough food to scrape by for a couple of weeks, medicines and such. What got those people through in the long haul was mental toughness and being resourceful.

Learn any and every trade you can, buy used tools at yard sales and know how to use them. Be able to trade your skills for supplies and not to need to give up your supplies to pay others. Welding, plumbing, automotive repair, small engine repair- all are "needs". Learning how to preserve and store foods is also very helpful. I filled a 8' pickup truck bed with potatoes every year and we stored them in the basement- just one of our staples.

Bill
 
Stabman
We live in a subdivision on the very edge of the city. Desert is 5 min away. We have 4x4 vehicles so that eliminates about 40% of people going where we go. We plan to access the desert and use dry riverbeds and sand washes to leave the immediate area which eliminates another 20% of SUV type surburban soccer mom vehicles. The only pavement well need is if either of us are at work and we have mapped severel routes depending on traffic, category of event and / nbc considerations like wind direction. We have supply caches buried in likely areat with redundant gps markers on them to help find later as well as several fresh water holes to use as waypoints.So that's the short version of how I feel I will avoid the golden horde and mass exodus out of town.we then have time frames to meet at initial poins weather home or just out of town.and then follow on points depending on direction and threat.we can realistically hold out for a good 60 days in a mountain range just outside town to allow time for the others in the group to rally and we have leave behind markers for where we are going if the no later than time is exceeded.
That's the short version but I feel we eliminate 70% of the horde.
 
Water is the key! There are 7 billions things to eat on the planet, but not enough water.
 
You also want to choose where you live. During the ice storm of 1998 maine was without power for 14-21 days. Power crews were flown in from as far away as texas via commercial air to meet up with their cherry picker trucks that were sling loaded under and the military and national guards sikorsky sky crane and the good old chinook helicopters (I flew on a lot of chinooks in my army days). The local populace's response was to bake cookies and hot soup for the power crews and bring them to the workers along with hot coffee and hot chocolate.

During the halloween snowstorm of 2011 connecticut was without power for 4 days. The governor had to declare martial law and the national guard was deployed to guard each power truck as the local populaces response was to hijack the trucks at gunpoint and force them to work on thier road. I feel if the outage had continued for another day or two rioting and cannibalism would have spread thought the great state of Connecticut.
 
You cannot stockpile enough foodstuffs to survive the end of civilization. If that happens, the only way to survive will be to reconstitute civilization at a very local level, so be nice to your neighbors, you're going to need them. Teamwork. Stockpiling supplies is a good idea to survive short term disruptions to the supply chain only. Long term, you need the means and knowledge to obtain/grow/build stuff, not the stuff itself. Not everyone is in the right location to do that, those people are frankly SOL. Sad but true.
 
Stock up on all, we're in for one more event, and its going to be a make or break'er...

my wife hates the line. :D
 
I have a creek 100 yards from my front door, which I can access without crossing any private property... But I would not trust its quality without filtering and a hefty boil. Not something I would want as a primary water source.
 
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