A.G. Russell 2008 Texas Ranger knife

rprocter said:
Blues, i think your post is a bit strong and i don't think Abs. post was going down that road, but a legit follow up to CF's post.
roland
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The reply was for everyone. So happened that his post provided the impetus to make sure the matter was nipped in the bud. If you have any further questions or issues not answered in the guidelines please email or PM Gus or me.
 
rprocter said:
Blues, i think your post is a bit strong and i don't think Abs. post was going down that road, but a legit follow up to CF's post.

roland
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Was trying to give A.G. some credit for overcoming some barriers with this design, folder in providing a good product at a good price for his customers. I didn't do a very good job. Sorry. Not trying to stir the pot.

- Joe
 
canineforge said:
Was trying to give A.G. some credit for overcoming some barriers with this design, folder in providing a good product at a good price for his customers. I didn't do a very good job. Sorry. Not trying to stir the pot.

- Joe
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Joe, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Just trying to keep the discussion from getting sidetracked into the old "import vs. domestic" and China bashing that we've been through (ad nauseum) in the past.

I know you well enough to know that you had no intention of creating issues and I didn't see anything in your post which was provocative.

And as mentioned previously, my reply in reference to Absintheur's post was written for the purpose of heading off potential issues earlier rather than later and was not intended to hang him out to dry.
 
Saw this knife in one of my AGR catalogs , to me it looks very appealing.

Only thing that throws me off for some reason is the 'shield' on the handle , otherwise it looks and sounds like a fine knife for the money.

And yeap , AG Russel wouldnt put forth such a statement about quality unless it was true.

Nice knife ! Thanks for sharing :)


Tostig.
 
Flymon, your analogy:"IMHO I might as well put a Marine Corp bumper sticker on my truck", isn't. nobody can see the knife in your pocket or in the sheath. you really aren't promoting anything with the knife.
and:"As-is, its just a cheesy (albeit well made) commemorative knife to me."
i collect Schrade U.S.A. they put out a LOT of commemoratives(some claim they started this trend), usually a regular pattern with a commemorative etch and shield, but also with bone or stag scales in place of the regular Delrin. so if you want your favorite pattern with sweet natural scales, you have to get a commemorative or else an old, pre '60s knife.
so with those knives and this one i don't pay any attention to the etch or shield, i just enjoy the knife. otherwise i would miss out on a lot of fine knives.
perhaps AG is reading this and might consider a second run, no etch and a plain shield. maybe commemoratives in general have had their day(or 35 years).
roland
 
Fair enough on the analogy, I agree it's not exactly the same thing.

Let me just clarify what I meant by "cheesy". I don't think commemorative pieces are by nature cheesy, and neither are people who collect/carry them. I would not have chose to have THIS knife made in China, unless I was just trying to make a buck. I am NOT saying that was the intent, I have no way to know that and am only speaking for myself, but I just couldn't hand one of those to an actual Texas Ranger with a straight face.

That being said, I really do like the design, and if it wasn't a commemorative piece I would be interested in one at the right price regardless of where it was made.
 
I will have to say this knife evidently is "flying off the shelves"...lol...I ordered mine last week and got a back-order notice today.
 
A friend purchased a hawkbill at Blade from A.G.'s booth that looks like it was made by the same company.

To say that I was impressed with every aspect of his new hawkbill would be a great understatement and I expect this one is just as if not more impressive.
 
I do like the concept, although two things that bother me about the design are the odd monster nail nick (Or is it just something to gain purchase on while pinching the blade? Seems there's one on each side) and the serpentine shaped edge. I personally don't like this edge profile as it's a bitch to sharpen with a stone, and I don't always have sticks handy. It's a profile more suited to modern assisted open style knives than a traditional gunstock (I know, I'm old fashioned).

As far as China steels (and this may explain the broken blade on the hawkbill), I read a post somewhere by a steel junky explaining that the Chinese companies are all over the board as far as stated blade hardness and actual hardness. A blade purported to be between 56 and 58RC might actually be 50-51. Same goes for tempering, they're making some too hard and some too soft. I think there's a real problem as far as QC on the factory floors, at least in the metallurgical dept., the knife itself looks to be very well made. I just think, from what I've seen from a lot of products coming out of China, is that the mentality there is more along the lines of pumping out quantity rather than quality, which probably has a LOT to do with keeping costs down. Maybe this is changing now, as is evidenced by some of A.G.'s knives, but I think I'd prefer to wait it out a bit longer. Blues, I hope this falls into your guidelines, I'm in no way China bashing, just stating some observations.

Eric
 
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Eric,I appreciate your opinions & observations,I agree on the nail nick & Thanks for the steel info,too
I did send that Beak out today,to AG Russell,to see if I could get a replacement.
-Vince
 
Jeff Clark said:
I bet AG would like to see that knife. Maybe the blade is too hard for its target use. All them fancy letters and numbers in the alloy may say "hard fine-grained stainless", but they don't say "tough old-fashioned carbon steel". It looks like the kind of knife that should have a 1084 or 1095 carbon steel blade--for tradition's sake.
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Jeff, if course I would like to see that knife. We have sold almost 1,200 of them and I have not yet seen such a thing. The hollow grind does leave the blade vulnarable to damage but I thought the possible loss worth it for the pleasure every one else would have.

The Beak opened and closed 285,000 times before our testing machine broke.

The Gunstock opened and closed 350,000 times equel to the knife being used 10 times a day for 35,000 days or steady use for 10 years. The knife was still a fine using knife.
 
A. G. Russell said:
Jeff, if course I would like to see that knife. We have sold almost 1,200 of them and I have not yet seen such a thing. The hollow grind does leave the blade vulnarable to damage but I thought the possible loss worth it for the pleasure every one else would have.

The Beak opened and closed 285,000 times before our testing machine broke.

The Gunstock opened and closed 350,000 times equel to the knife being used 10 times a day for 35,000 days or steady use for 10 years. The knife was still a fine using knife.
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A.G.,He is referring to the "Beak" ,I spoke of.MY friend,who is a commercial electrician,loves hawkbill's.So I gave him this one. Yes,he uses his knives hard.When I saw your "Beak",I figured it'd be a good knife,for him.He flipped out over it.Three or four weeks later,he reported to me,while stripping the heavy coating off of a thick commercial cable type wire,a chunk popped out off the blade,at the back near the tang I sent this knife to your address today.Inspect it,if you'd like My friend & I both loved the knife Just were disappointed,that this happened Thanks,
-Vince
PS My apologies once again,never meant to hi jack here,but this is,a similar produced knife & the steel is the same
 
VCM3 said:
A.G.,He is referring to the "Beak" ,I spoke of.MY friend,who is a commercial electrician,loves hawkbill's.So I gave him this one. Yes,he uses his knives hard.When I saw your "Beak",I figured it'd be a good knife,for him.He flipped out over it.Three or four weeks later,he reported to me,while stripping the heavy coating off of a thick commercial cable type wire,a chunk popped out off the blade,at the back near the tang I sent this knife to your address today.Inspect it,if you'd like My friend & I both loved the knife Just were disappointed,that this happened Thanks,
-Vince
PS My apologies once again,never meant to hi jack here,but this is,a similar produced knife & the steel is the same
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Vince,

Please send me the dknife, I will send you another so your friend can see if it happens again, if so we will all have learned something.
 
No problem Vince, but let's try to get this one back on the OP's knife and requested critique. :thumbup:

(Now that you and A.G. have discussed the matter it can be followed up offline.)
 
You had me till the "China" stamp.
AG Russel is a Patriot though,so I might make an exception if I was buying from him.
 
Quote EA42: "I read a post somewhere by a steel junky explaining that the Chinese companies are all over the board as far as stated blade hardness and actual hardness. A blade purported to be between 56 and 58RC might actually be 50-51. Same goes for tempering, they're making some too hard and some too soft."
Eric, with all respect, that sweeping condemnation of all knife steels coming out of China NEEDS to be backed up by FACTS. i have a lot of Rough Rider and Steel Warrior knives and have used 2 of each a lot in the last ~18 months. now this is a very small sample but FACT: they are all shaving sharp on arrival(that's well over 100 blades), the 4 i have used are still sharp, no chipping, edge rolling or bending or breakage.
i will be very surprised if the steel in this Gunstock does not give equal or better performance.
as for the "fat" nail nicks, the purpose is to allow 1 handed opening (L or R) and they are perfectly placed so your thumb pad hooks in there nicely and blade opens easily. same function as a thumb stud, but without the stud. pretty neat really, and in many situations 1 handed opening is a big help.
Eric, we both love Schrade U.S.A. knives and this isn't one ! but how about you buying one, use it, Hard ! and then see if you still feel the opinion you quoted about knife steel from China is valid. and i can pretty well guarantee you will like the knife when you get it in hand.
i am now carrying mine, so in a month or so i will see how the edge/blade hold up. i will report back here if i encounter anything other than first rate performance.
roland
 
Roland,

I checked back on my info, couldn't find the info I was thinking of (of course), but I did have a quote by Perry Miller of the NKCA, who had some steel tested on Rough Riders, New Schrades, and US Classics. Now these are I believe 440(?) blades, and the tests were done in 2007:

"Last year I bought a Rough Rider, US Classic, and a new Schrade. I had them Rockwell tested and all three came in at 46-48 RC. That was a year ago though and from reading here it appears they are starting to use better steel. Tempering means everything though."

Now these were advertised as having a hardness of 56-58! That's what I'm talking about. Having said that, I didn't take into account the time frame involved and the steels, which I should have looked into more carefully, and I apologize.

The 9Cr18MoV steel, such as what is used in A.G. Russell's knife, is a newer steel made in China that is far superior to the previous stuff they were manufacturing. It comes in at between 56-60RC depending on the manufacturer, and is used by the likes of Benchmade, Gerber, CRKT, Spyderco, etc (told you it's more like a tactical blade, you just need to drill a hole where the nicks are for a thumb pull:D ). From what I've read it compares favorably with 440C, but see the following link, with Razorsharp's and Knarfeng's comments, for some clarification:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=579599

It just puzzled me that the blade on the hawkbill had issues, but I'm sure A.G.'ll get to the bottom of that:thumbup: Again, I apologize for speaking first and thinking later, although I do still believe that QC needs to be tightened up a bit more on the steels. I doubt very much that you'll have trouble with that particular steel.

As far as buying one, like I said I'm just not sold on the style, I'm saving up for the Kabar/Union toenail;):thumbup:

Eric
 
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I would like the knife without the shield and without the recurve flow of the blade.
 
I think it is a good looking knife - unique design tastefully done - and coming from A.G. you know the quality is going to be good.
 
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