A good sleeping bag

[smersh]

Ok, so what recommendation is a good sleeping pad. Now, when I qualify my price requirements, keep in mind, I buy the very best I can because I know it will last. However, being laid off for the past 7 months with a family and mortgage, I am going to have to ask for suggestions that will be able to withstand 20 or so packs before I retire it for a good one...cheap yet usable is the word here.

Thermarest is king -- the new Neoair model is the most comfortable and lightest, but pricey, fragile, and not very warm. Amazing for backpacking in warmer weather, though. Their more traditional models are tougher (heavier fabric), a bit warmer, and cheaper. Something like the Prolite Plus is a good model that strikes a balance between affordability, size, weight, and insulating ability. Big Agnes also makes decent inflatables.

I like Marmot bags, and the synthetic models listed above are likely to be good choices. Synthetic is heavier and bulkier than down, but more affordable and more wet-tolerant. That's probably an overrated issue most of the time, since either will be fine in damp weather. Any truly wet sleeping bag is a bummer. It's only potentially an issue when you have a soaked bag because of an emergency (capsize, fall in a river, etc.), which is a sign of a Pretty Bad Day all around.

re the ratings, this is from the Marmot website, which explains things pretty well:

http://marmot.com/node/1771

How do I read the EN hangtag?

Basically the EN hangtag shows a temperature range:

Comfort Limit – Based on a standard woman having a comfortable nights sleep
Lower Limit - Based on a standard man at the lowest temp to have a comfortable nights sleep
Extreme Rating – A survival rating for a standard woman

For example, the rating on our Pinnacle 15º Sleeping Bag shows:

Comfort Limit – 22.2 degrees
Lower Limit – 10 degrees
Extreme Rating – Minus 24.7 degrees

This can be helpful in selling on the floor. Below is an example dialogue between a female customer and a store employee.

Female Buyer - “I think I need a 15 degree bag.”
Store Employee – “What temperatures are you expecting on your trip?”
FB – “Between 15 and 25 degrees. I tend to sleep cold however.”
SE – “You can definitely use this Pinnacle 15 bag, but you may consider buying a Zero degree bag to sleep more comfortably at the lower temperatures.”

 

[Codger_64]

Does anyone here have experience with the US military cold weather modular sleep system? I see them for around $100 on Ebay. Although they seem a bit heavy for backpacking, they look like something decent to keep with the survival supplies, or in the vehicle.

BB

I don't have experience with the new ECW system, but I have owned two older variations which are still available.

The first (and oldest design) is the "Sleeping Bag, Mountain, M-1949". Information on this bag and most others including the Modular Sleeping System can be found here.

This is the other one of the two military bags I have owned and I never found myself cold, no matter the temperature or weather. But it does not compact much and is so heavy that it precludes backpack carry. I used it in winter canoe voyages where weight and bulk was of little consequence. I bought mine relatively cheap because of people's reluctance to sleep in a bag marked "For Casualties Only". NSN 6530-01-109-9039 - 18#

The brand new evacuation bag was created for casualties. Rated at -60 degrees below zero, you don't have to be injured to enjoy this warm sleeping bag. It features 11 pounds of down and a coyote fur collar. This is the ultimate cold weather sleeping bag. 88"x30"

 

[beef]

There is always much made about "the dangers" of down bags, but you know what? Your synthetic bag will be pretty miserable when soaked too, even if mathmatically, it still retains SOME of its insulative properties.

Loft is the "thickness" that a sleeping bag has as a result of its fill. Of late, some manufacturers give a "total" loft measurement, which includes the top and bottom of the bag. This is less than helpful, because your body weight will flatten out the loft below you, eliminating any insulative value.

Down is rated by "Fill Power", which the amount of volume it has per ounce. Better quality down takes up more space per ounce than lesser quality down. The lower the Fill Power, the more down must be added to achieve the desired loft. I believe it works like this: An ounce of 550 down fill 550 cu" of volume. An ounce of 650 will have another 100 cu" of volume per ounce. Higher Fill Power down is also said to compress much better as well.

The bag you inquired about has 30 oz of 550 down. It is 32" at the shoulders and 21" at the foot. This seems pretty narrow and may make wearing additional insulation a problem. These would be good numbers to compare.

I was about to write a similar response, but couldn't have put it any better.
I've spent 2 weeks in down bags in constant rain and I'm still alive. I think as long as you know how to keep it dry, you'll be fine.

Even if I had a synthetic bag, there's no way I'd go to bed in it if it was soaked. The only time you're wet and warm is when showering.

Regarding not wearing clothes in a sleepingbag, if your bodyheat can't get to the insulation of your sleepingbag, it's because it's being trapped by your clothing, next to your body.
I try to keep my body warm, not my sleepingbag. It can look after itself.
Wouldn't it be funny if clothes kept us warm during the day but cold at night?

Down tends to have better loft retention in the long run too. I understand to achieve the 900 loft rating that my Speer Peapod has, the down has some sort of processing done to it (crimping? I have no idea. Anyone know?)

Some really great responses already, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Marion David Poff]

Great contribution, Duggy. Well reasoned and helpful, especially for a Wiggys sockpuppet!

You mentioned Wiggy's what do you think about their product?

Best,
Marion

 

[Codger_64]

... I understand to achieve the 900 loft rating that my Speer Peapod has, the down has some sort of processing done to it (crimping? I have no idea. Anyone know?)...

Washing, sorting, turbidity and oxygen tests. Washing is just like it sounds, to clean the down.

Sorting gets the feathers out and separates the down according to clump size. Bigger clumps occupy more space per ounce and insulate better. Older birds generally produce more large clumps. 500 fill down occupies 500 cubic inches per ounce when not compressed. 900 fill down occupies 900 cubic inches.

Turbidity tests check for cleanliness. Samples are agitated in distilled water to loosen any remaining dirt etc, then the water is checked for visual turbidity (clarity). A higher number reflects cleaner down.

The oxygen test works like the turbidity test, but measures broken down fragments (chemical decomposition of the down) and a lower number indicates higher quality.

 

[beef]

Thanks Codger, but I read that 900fp down is 800fp that has been modified in some way?

 

[beeperboy]

I don't have experience with the new ECW system, but I have owned two older variations which are still available.

The first (and oldest design) is the "Sleeping Bag, Mountain, M-1949". Information on this bag and most others including the Modular Sleeping System can be found here.

This is the other one of the two military bags I have owned and I never found myself cold, no matter the temperature or weather. But it does not compact much and is so heavy that it precludes backpack carry. I used it in winter canoe voyages where weight and bulk was of little consequence. I bought mine relatively cheap because of people's reluctance to sleep in a bag marked "For Casualties Only". NSN 6530-01-109-9039 - 18#

Interesting links, Thanks.

I'm thinking I need a military MSS to play with. The bivy bag in itself looks like an interesting piece of kit. I'm kind of claustrophobic in mummy bags, but given the choose, I'd rather be warm.

BB

 

[Codger_64]

I don't know about that, but it may have to do with the thoroughness of the processing. Almost all down contains a percentage of fractured feather and down which increases the weight without increasing the loft. And there are two different methods of measuring the loft. I have read that to get the European equivilant of the American loft measurement, subtract 100. I've also read that the Japanese standard for down cleanliness and purity is more strengent than that of the U.S.