A good solid example of GSM cutting corners- DLC coating replaced with Cheaper Alternative on some models

Shaun Cazin said:
That particular Espada uses a black PVD coating which is actually a more durable option in comparison to our DLC coating. PVD is actually a more premium option. Can you please post a few close-up images of the scratches? We would like to investigate this further.
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Really appreciate you clarifying this for us, Shaun. It’s been asked everywhere and I have yet to see a spec/description mentioning PVD. Looking forward to what you may have to add after investigating. Thanks for being here sir.
 
DayofReckoning said:
It's certainly possible, but on my 4K display it certainly looks like scratches down to the metal to me. The owner of the video is very experienced with Cold Steel blades, I imagine he tried scrubbing the area to see if it's what you said, but maybe he didn't.

Even without the scratches, I believe my argument stands that Cold Steel has downgraded here, as my understanding is PVD is inferior to DLC coating. If that's incorrect someone can correct me.
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Just to be clear, my post was not intended to be a criticism of you. I just wanted to offer another possible explanation. Admittedly, I have a bit of a bias against YouTube "knife personalities", so my post may have read a bit harsher than I intended.

I don't believe you were condemning Cold Steel, and you may very well be 100% right that PVD is cheaper and inferior. My statement about not condemning Cold Steel until we had more information was meant as a general statement, and not specifically directed at you. I apologize if my post came across as criticism of you :) .
 
Shaun Cazin said:
That particular Espada uses a black PVD coating which is actually a more durable option in comparison to our DLC coating. PVD is actually a more premium option. Can you please post a few close-up images of the scratches? We would like to investigate this further.
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I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but from what I've read, of all the PVD coatings, DLC (which is a type of PVD coating) has the greatest surface hardness and lowest coefficient of friction. Why do you think this new PVD coating is a more premium option?
 
killgar said:
Just to be clear, my post was not intended to be a criticism of you. I just wanted to offer another possible explanation. Admittedly, I have a bit of a bias against YouTube "knife personalities", so my post may have read a bit harsher than I intended.

I don't believe you were condemning Cold Steel, and you may very well be 100% right that PVD is cheaper and inferior. My statement about not condemning Cold Steel until we had more information was meant as a general statement, and not specifically directed at you. I apologize if my post came across as criticism of you :) .
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No worries, totally understandable. Youtube is chock full of real nonsense, so I can understand why some are hesitant to draw any conclusions from Youtube knife reviews. To be fair though, in this case the guy's channel that I linked to has been testing Cold Steel blades on Youtube for over a decade and is as about as unbiased and a straight shooter as you are going to find anywhere, in my opinion.

In regard to the DLC vs PVD, I am interesting in hearing Shawn's take on this, as everything I have read does seem to confirm DLC as the superior coating. Would like to know what lead up to the change here.
 
I am certainly far from an expert on the matter, so I won't argue anything other than Shaun's comments seem to fly in the face of what little I have read on the subject.

With all due respect, from some of the current choices and decisions that GSM Cold Steel has made since acquiring the company, it's very hard to envision why they would switch over to a more expensive and costly process here.
 
DayofReckoning said:
With all due respect, from some of the current choices and decisions that GSM Cold Steel has made, it's very hard to envision why they would switch over to a more expensive and costly process.
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We have not switched. DLC will still be offered for most inline products. PVD is only offered as an additional SKU for certain models. You will see both coatings on Cold Steel products in the future.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
We have not switched. DLC will still be offered for most inline products. PVD is only offered as an additional SKU for certain models. You will see both coatings on Cold Steel products in the future.
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The current lineup is very confusing. Most of the more premium models with S35VN blades feature the DLC, while most of the cheaper blades, along with the Espada XL, which used to come in DLC, is using the PVD finish.
 
I have very limited experience with coated blades. But the current issue bayonet for the United States Marine Corps is PVD finish. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for me
 
I want to second the notion that the silver marks on the blade in the video could be transfer marks, from the softer silver metal on his pants being "drawn" onto the blade's coating.

Many people would come onto the Omega Forums complaining that their Ceramic Bezel had been scratched on their Planet Ocean dive watch, when in fact is was a metal transfer from a softer object onto the matt finished ceramic material in the watch bezel. People found that there were certain erasers, similar to the ones to erase ink from paper, that could remove the transfer markings from the watch bezels.
 
Shaun Cazin said:
We have not switched. DLC will still be offered for most inline products. PVD is only offered as an additional SKU for certain models. You will see both coatings on Cold Steel products in the future.
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But why is it offered if it's more expensive? Was there anything wrong with the DLC?

You said you stopped shipping left handed pocket clips to combat spiraling costs, but now you're offering a more expensive finish on some knives?

And it's the cheaper knives?

And you don't even advertise it as an upgrade?

Can you explain why?

Are you able to explain the method you used to test the coatings and what the results of the tests were? Lynn would often perform those types of tests on camera.
 
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i bought one of the new black coated ad15 knives and while it looks nice, the dlc coating on my recon 1 folder looks so much nicer and shinier
 
Shaun Cazin said:
You will see some Recon 1, some Luzon's, SRK, 4-Max Scout will have a PVD version as well. There are a few others that I cant talk about yet as well.
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JeremiahWeaver09 said:
i bought one of the new black coated ad15 knives and while it looks nice, the dlc coating on my recon 1 folder looks so much nicer and shinier
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Shaun is the AD15 a PVD coated blade ? Or is it just a "black coated" blade ? And what is "black coated", if that is a description being used by Cold Steel ?
 
DLC vs PVD, is there any reliable documented testing anyone can reference / quote other than just saying one is better than the other ?

I don't feel like doing the research as it seems that many people here already have.

Thank you
 
Your Name Goes Here said:
DLC vs PVD, is there any reliable documented testing anyone can reference / quote other than just saying one is better than the other ?

I don't feel like doing the research as it seems that many people here already have.

Thank you
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DLC/PVD Misinformation

No, it's not a particularly pervasive thing, but after seeing someone actually parrot Skelton's ignorant nonsense about DLC coatings (and after reading advice from someone wiser than myself) I figured why not start this thread. While my background in material science is limited (but not...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com

DLC is a type of PVD. PVD is a process. What I’ve learned comes from many sources, but that thread has useful info.
 
Your Name Goes Here said:
DLC vs PVD, is there any reliable documented testing anyone can reference / quote other than just saying one is better than the other ?

I don't feel like doing the research as it seems that many people here already have.

Thank you
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T tiguy7 seems to know a lot about these different processes and coatings..maybe he'll come by and elaborate?
 
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