A good steel for balance of hamon and edge retention ?

flatblackcapo

flatblackcapo

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Mar 25, 2012
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Can any of you folks with experience with doing hamons please point me in the right direction? I am trying to decide what steel to use to make a knife for a guy who would like me to try my hand at a hamon. He is well aware of my lack of experience in creating hamons ,but he is a brave soul. I have been trying to figure out what steel would work well for getting a decent hamon while still providing a balance of good edge retention and toughness.I am not interested in using stainless for this blade. I came to the conclusion that 1084 might work for what I am after but thought see what you folks had to say before I got started. I will be using furnace cement and quenching in oil. The usefulness of the knife is more important to me than the activity of the hamon . If you can provide any guidance in this matter it would be much appreciated.
 
I'm not sure that 1084 is the best choice for hamons. Others will correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe 1084 has too much Mn (Manganese). You would do better to take a look at 1075 or 1095. Both make very nice hamons. I have been getting some understated hamon with 80CrV2(1080+) with furnace cement and quenched in Parks 50.
 
I think i4Marc said it. 1084 will show a hardening line.....but that's about it. Not really a hamon, per se, just a differential line with no activity.....and that's at best. Too much Mn. 1095 is a great choice....but trickier to heat treat properly. You need precise temp and time control. W1 and W2, of course, will produce great hamons....but like the 1095 you need to be in control of time/temp. 1075 is a great choice. The 1080+ will give some activity....not like 1075, 1095, W1, or W2. If you are good at heat treat, or are going to send it off, I would say W2. Since W2 is rarer than an honest congressman, W1 would be second in line. But it is rare to find unless you can forge down. 1095 would be third in line, if you can heat treat well or send off. 1075 would be fourth, and 1080+ fifth (If I was concerned about a good hamon). At leat that's just me. For edges....Shiro-ko and Aio-ko, W2, and CruForge V all day!!!!!
 
I'd say W2. .9% carbon definitely means a respectable edge retention.
 
I used 1075 at the moment and get good results. As a knife steel it gets very sharp, and holds a edge!

2014-01-31155633_zps9a728315.jpg
 
Thanks to everyone. I did originally want to use W2 but could not find it. I am using a Evenheat kiln so holding temp for soak is not a problem. From what I read 1075 will show more activity but you will be sacrificing some edge holding ability. Am I uderstanding that correctly?If anyone knows where I can get W2 please let me know.
Adelphos, That is a fine looking knife.Thanks for sharing.
 
Yep, correct. The lower amount of carbon leads to a lower ratio of hardness to marstentite percentage. Also, since it isn't an alloy, there's not much, if anything, to form carbides.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Forum Fiend v1.1.7.
 
W2 should be available again in the next few weeks/months. The last batch was flawed and recalled.
 
I have been using Aldo's 1095 and I love it. You can get a wide range of looks depending on how you polish and etch it also. For instance, here are two different knives in the 1095. They were heat treated exactly the same (aside from tempering temps) but they were polished and etched differently.

Low grit sanding (800 grit)with heavy etch:
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This one is sanded to a higher grit (1500) and etched gradually
100_6949_zps4edf1dd0.jpg
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100_6952_zps5259a92b.jpg
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-Adam
 
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Thanks. Ferric chloride, vinegar, and lemon juice are what I etch with. For a heavy etch, I use the ferric chloride first, then vinegar. For the more gradual etches, the vinegar and/or lemon juice. It involves a lot of experimentation really.

-Adam
 
Aldo's 1095. The request on this knife was a full hard blade. Blade was simply finished to 1000 and etched then wiped with 0000 steel wool. I can see that It would look really good polished up to get all the wispy action going on.

Im not a big hamon guy, but leave it like this sometimes to show how the blade is HT'd.

1095 needs precise temp control and a fast quench though. I work it almost exclusively, and am comfortable with it, but its not a beginner steel in my book.

210c8df42ef031b9636953a03e163c4d.jpg
 
W2, W1, 1095, or any 10XX with low Mn (below.50%).

W2 smokes the others in edge holding! Toughness is also very high and was a surprise to me.
 
Adam Reese said:
Thanks. Ferric chloride, vinegar, and lemon juice are what I etch with. For a heavy etch, I use the ferric chloride first, then vinegar. For the more gradual etches, the vinegar and/or lemon juice. It involves a lot of experimentation really.

-Adam
Click to expand...
Thank you very much Adam.

LucyCustomKnives said:
Aldo's 1095. The request on this knife was a full hard blade. Blade was simply finished to 1000 and etched then wiped with 0000 steel wool. I can see that It would look really good polished up to get all the wispy action going on.

Im not a big hamon guy, but leave it like this sometimes to show how the blade is HT'd.

1095 needs precise temp control and a fast quench though. I work it almost exclusively, and am comfortable with it, but its not a beginner steel in my book.

210c8df42ef031b9636953a03e163c4d.jpg
Click to expand...
Thank you . That is a nice looking blade and shows the heat treat action well.

Don Hanson III said:
W2, W1, 1095, or any 10XX with low Mn (below.50%).

W2 smokes the others in edge holding! Toughness is also very high and was a surprise to me.
Click to expand...
Thank you Very much Don. I will stay on the hunt for W2.
 
Just wanted to say thanks to all for the replies and let y'all know I was able to find enough good W2 to get the project done. I will definitely post pics of the knives (I am making a matched pair) when I get them done.
 
W2 is my favorite non-stainless steel. I was fortunate enough to pick up a little supply of Don's W2 when he was parting with some of it, and I have enough to last a good long while at the rate that I make knives currently (which is hardly ever anymore :D). It makes a heck of a good blade.

--nathan
 
Nathan, I have only heard good things about W2. I believe what I am receiving is some of Don's W2 that someone had holed away and was kind enough to spare some of it to help me out.It will be my first time working with W2 and I am excited to work with it.
 
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