A hard day for an AFCK in the mooseforest.

N

NirreBosse

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Jan 7, 2003
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This saturday I was wisiting my farm to work with firewood. In the afternoon my cousin gave me a cellphone call since he was alone in the forest with a newly shoot moosecalf. He wanted some help to bring it down to the road as the dawn was not far away. I changed clouthes quickly and since I didnt hunt that day I just had a Benchmade AFCK nearby for a little bigger knife I was able to use with gloves in the cold wether.
The place for the shooting was aprox 2,5 km into the forest but we had to hurry as it was snowing and the dark was coming quick. As it was snow on the ground we just put some rope around the neck of the moosecalf and drew it after ourselves.
Here started the knifetroubbles for me. After some houndred meters my clip snagged into the rope in a downslope and the clip got rather bent. Coming closer to the car we came to a small lake we had to decide if the ice on the water was strong enough to walk on. I tested this by picking the ice with the AFCK, resulting the point to break off half a centimeter. As it was darkening I was in a hurry but not to the point I was destruktiv with the knife. Rest of the work with the moosecalf was done with my sodbuster jr.

It took me some time sunday to grind back the knife to working shape and to bend back the clip. When using the grindingwheel I noticed that The AFCK is a realy hard knife according to steel.
My impression of the knife today is not as good as before. I was kind of thinking that this was a knife to use when the tuff gets ruff but now I think more of it as a designtool without the toughness needed for real use. Its still a cool toy though but for hunting I need more.

Bosse
 
I think I would define picking at ice with a knife as destructive. I only use my knives as cutting tools, which is what they are designed to do. Especially folding knives, they are normally not designed to take cold plus impact. Also usually with more hardness (good in a cutting tool) comes a decrease in toughness.
 
For the hardness/brittleness im with you. And this knife was hard. I notised that on the grindingwheel, probobly harder than what is good for ATS-34.
Bear in mind that this is a pocketknife and the koldness that meet this knife was not so harch. Inside a throuserspocket with the owner bading in sweet is not so cold. Newly frosen ice is hard but brittle. by the way It was not more than 4 cm so we had to go around.
Picking right down into Ice on a lake is not what I would call destructive. And not to much for a folder. I have previously done it with bouth fixed blades and folders. None of my knifes is tantoedged prybars as I use them for hunting and fishing so the delicat tip of a AFCK is not thinner than a Mora 2000 or a queen # stockman in D2. Winterfishing means a little icepicking sometimes and I have done it with my spyderco calypso jr to witch has a very delicate tip.
About folders: we talking about the tip here and not the lock with withstand this picking good. Anything else would have surprised me much.
The knife is now in working shape again but I was kind of expekting a little more of a Advanced Folding Combat Knife. My conclusion is that the material was to hard for good performance out of that special steel.

Bosse
 
Thanks for sharing. Nice to hear the he AFCK doing outdoors chores. It is a highly regarded BM model in the SD arena.
 
I wouldn't use a folder for that, personally. You end up losing a folder that is excellent for other uses, simply because you were using it for a situation that was less than dire.
 
As Im not englishspiking and just have it as a mediocre second language so I dont know what less than dire means but
I have yet to loose a knife in the woods or in the city. I use them in boats and canoes to when fishing and havent lost them that way eather.

The AFCK is not the ideal mooseknife but this time I only had this knife and a Sodbuster jr with me and as it was cold the AFCK seemed to be the best shoice around with its ability to use with gloves on the hands and a lock.
Being in the nature inkluding moosehunting is together with my family the thing that brings me most joy and this afternoon going to the forest to help my cousin I needed a knife. I dont choose to go to a activity like this without a knife just because the knife is not perfektly suited for the purpose. The option would have been going without a knife with is not an option. the activity is more important then the tool.

So the knife is not in original bladeshape anymore but its a good user again, Its just my trust in ATS-34 with high tempering hardness that got a beet. I will use it extensivly again if nessisarry. A 5 inch folder with a 3 mm thick blade named the Advanced Folding Combat Knife cant just be ment for opening envelopes and slicing tomatoes.
By the Way I took the chance grinding away the serrated part of the edge to to make it a better user since it cant be said to be even close to mint anymore with 1/2 a centimeter shorter blade and more upsvept point. I have had the knife for 10 years and this may aktually be the thing that make me use it more. I dont have to consider it having a secound hand walue anymore.

Bosse
 
less than dire means it was not a life threatening predicament. What he means is if you used something else to pick at the ice, you wouldn't have damaged your otherwise good knife. If you were falling through the ice and had to chip at it, damaging the knife would be more than worth it. I do think that you're right about the rockwell hardness though, i haven't chipped a tip hitting ice either. Good insight to the knife though.
 
I call BS, pictures or it didn't happen, if it did happen it's because you were striking a hard cold surface.

just because its it's a "advanced folding combat knife" does not mean it's designed to be an ice pick.

All I got from your posts is that you were upset that you abused your knife to the point of breaking the tip and that you think the ATS-34 steel was over hardened.
 
Thank you Suzuki for your good explanation of that expression.

4 ranges. We probably live in very different environments But I much rather try the newfrozen ice before entering it than trying to rescue myself afterwards. We could have taken the path through the forest without trying the ice as this was what we had to do anyway but its tempting to take a shortcut in the dark when one have drawn a moosecalf for an hour over bad and slippery land.

Mabye I was expecting the wrong performance out of my knife but as I tried to share with you it was the only knife awaiable for me that day. I also tried to tell that it is now OK.
I think that the steel in that knife was hardened to much if it is supposed to be a tough knife witch I expekted from a knife designed for combat. But I dont know anything about knifebattle so I admit I dont know what to expect from a knife like that.

Skimo. I dont understand your approach to my post. Mabye its the language but I cant understand why you think Im upset about the broken tip. Its just 1/2 a centimeter and the knife is OK again. I dont understand what BS means but I can understand you dont belive me or want to misskredit me. If its because I made a point of its name AFCK I beg your pardon, it was not my meening to step on your toes. As for pictures I didnt bring anything unnesisarry on this trip, let alone a camera. Feel free to ignore my posts.

I wrote this post to deskribe a interesting day in the forest when a knife was involved. I more often do this in the traditional forum as I mostly bring traditionals with me. I like my AFCK knife but belive it would have gained in being less hard. For me anyway.

Bosse
 
Thanks for sharing your story. I'd rather break a tip while checking than go under the ice. No matter what knife it is! Sometimes one gets caught out with the wrong knife but it is better than none. Many of us feel comfortable and ready for any threat based on the marketing of some knives. It can be dissappointing in reality. We can all learn from your experience.
 
I would guess that the cold ambient temperature would make any knife brittle when used as an impact tool.
 
I like the story thank you NirreBosse.

You used your knife and it shows now. It has some character! Do not be disappointed in the fact the tip broke (Knives are designed for cutting, I am glad to hear the lock held since that is usually one of the first things to give problems or in my opinion most likely to cause serious damage if it would fail in a pocket knife) . Stuff happens. Just keep using it. Your story to me is a testimony to the lock rather then the tip. I would expect the tip to break using it as an ice pick since it was not designed for that.
 
Nirrebosse:

I live in NJ, so we have our share of cold temps. My in-laws live in cold country too (CT, MD, etc.), so I've tested knives in the cold as well.

I own an AFCK, and I know that the tip is WAAAAY too fine for that kind of work. I would have used the knife to whittle down a walking stick, then used the STICK to test the ice. You still wouldn't have gone under, and your knife wouldn't have been hurt.

Sometimes, it's just tempting to use our knives for EVERYTHING, but I try to do my best to get to know each knife and know their limitations before (ab)using them

You did your best under the circumstances. Glad you got home safe. :)
 
Thick enough ice can be quite a hard material, I should think. And I was just looking at the tip of my Mini-AFCK, at least that one is pretty thin and pointy. Most likely designed to penetrate, ahem, softer materials and media.

But the good part is that you didn't lose the knife and were able to put it back to working condition. :)
 
I'm not surprised at all really pocket clips bend pretty easily, far better than tearing out threads of screws and such.

It is a very finely tipped knife, wouldn't recommend it as an ice pick.
 
Good story, Bosse, thanks for writing it up. I hear your disappointment that a "Combat" knife is harder rather than tougher. For example, think of a bayonet or a Ka-Bar USMC knife -- tough = yes, hard = no.

Indeed, I think we can all learn lessons from this experience about using our knives hard, but within their limitations. I've shied away from "uber tough" knives like Busse, Strider, ZT for just this reason -- I want them to be indestuctible, but I know that they are not. I want to believe! :p
 
I understand the want for an indestructible knife/tool. Heck, I own several Busses for this quality that they are reputed to have.

I have since changed my approach to ALL of my knives, when I visited the "Art of the Samurai" exhibit at the Metropolitan Museum in NYC. Many swords and armor on display. I marvelled at many of them. I marvelled even more when I saw that many were over 900 years old.

Yep, 900 years old. I kept picking up my jaw as I walked through the entire exhibit, lol!

A week later, a master sword polisher demonstrated onstage, in front of over 200 people, the Japanese method of sword-cleaning. SO MUCH CARE, attention to detail was put into the process of cleaning the sword that one FELT the respect one had for the sword. When he was done polishing it, he said to us "this sword is over 300 years old."

The whole exhibit made me study my own knives (Randall, Bagwell, Busse, Benchmade, Sebenza, Cold steel, etc.) more closely, and did my best to understand deeply their intended purpose. This step alone was the beginning, for me, towards caring for the tools that may one day save my life in the wilderness or in self-defense. My hope is that, with this care in mind, my knives will be used for their intended purpose, and be handed down and received with the respect and care that I showed them in my life.

This is quite a tangent from the original post, so I apologize to all if I have taken this discussion in an unintended direction. However, I feel it is pertinent to us because we do not ever really "own" our tools. We have it for a while, care for it, they care for us, and hope to pass it on to future generations, so that they benefit from the process that we've benefitted from. This is why, for me, the "indestructibility" of a knife is not of such high importance. They're all indestructible, if we understand their intended use.
 
marthinus said:
Your story to me is a testimony to the lock rather then the tip. I would expect the tip to break using it as an ice pick since it was not designed for that.
Click to expand...

+1. If the lock remains intact even when the tip is damaged through impact it shows how robust the lock is. Think of it this way: if the tip did not break off but the lock failed -- that would be worse.

The AFCK I think is designed for penetrating softer materials (including flesh) rather than harder stuff such as straight frozen ice.
 
NirreBosse said:
Skimo. I dont understand your approach to my post. Mabye its the language but I cant understand why you think Im upset about the broken tip. Its just 1/2 a centimeter and the knife is OK again. I dont understand what BS means but I can understand you dont belive me or want to misskredit me. If its because I made a point of its name AFCK I beg your pardon, it was not my meening to step on your toes. As for pictures I didnt bring anything unnesisarry on this trip, let alone a camera. Feel free to ignore my posts.

Bosse
Click to expand...

Hello NirreBosse :)

Slightly off-topic from the subject but as a fellow "foreigner" (I'm an Asian, a Filipino) whose been spending some years here on BF, I've come to understand that people's attitudes can be very different. It certainly is a big world our there with different cultures and ways of thinking. People certainly have different ways of expressing their differences.

The day I began to take anything I read in stride is the day I enjoyed spending time in the forums more :thumbup:
 
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