A hard day for an AFCK in the mooseforest.

untamed said:
Hello NirreBosse :)

The day I began to take anything I read in stride is the day I enjoyed spending time in the forums more :thumbup:
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Thank you for your advice, I have to admit I felt rather ununderstood yesterday geting answers I could not understand how they were relaited to my post. I did the mistake to try to tell my trouth. I do respect that people can have different experienses. Nothing I reed made me shange my opinion and nothing I wrote reached where I ment. I already know that I prefere softer steels like carbon steel or 12c27 hardened to 58-59 hrc. I wont ever regulate my activity after the tool. Its the tool that has to match the aktivity.

But I have to say One thing. A knife is the proper tool for testing the ice in my environment. It has been for hundreds of years. I dont pick the ice with one hard blow but with several lighter ones making pieces of ice go until its a hole. If the ice is thicker than 4 cm its strong enough to walk on. I cant for my life see how I could use a walking stick for this.
 
bosse i'm of the opinion that the jnife should'nt have broken.i've been many times on hunting & fishing trips where we were some distance from any stores. we brought block ice since it melts slower. the knives we used to chip up the ice were far from high performers. in fact we used [cheapies]. since we did'nt want to dull our fishing or hunting blades. i do'nt think skimo has much ourdoors experience, bone is 3 times stronger than hickory & a knife to be used as a possible defense blade would probably break on bone contact if used roughly. add to the fact any opponent is not going to be standing still & any contact penetrating with a blade will probably have twisting & bending torques to contend with.so if the a.f.c.k. broke on ice i would'nt want to depend on it as a protective blade. and you could have gotten a "lemon". no manufafaturer can be 100%.however this performance would cause my concern before buying this product.spend your money on a decent Finnish pukko, i'm sure you will never have a broken blade from the land of ice. if this ruffles feathers i'm not concerned since i did'nt join the forum to win a popularity contest.
 
Dennis Im 100% with you on the pukko, and I always bring such a knife to the forest if I plan for it. This day was kind of accidental that way I was doing other things far away from my knifedrawer. I had to use what I had around me.
My experiense from ice is that it doesnt even dull the edge of a softer steel like the mora 2000. I dont think that the AFCK is a true "lemon" since its edgeholding performance is very good, same as my mini AFCK from the same period and steel. But it matched bad with outdorsaktivity typical for northern sweden during wintertime. I dont pick ice very often and wont carry a special tool for it and I take care of my tools as good as I can.

I think its time for me to withdraw from this diskussion as it was the first history I wanted to tell and the rest got into a argument I dont enjoy.
I still like my knife. Will use and mabye even break it again. Right now its back to hairshaving sharp with low edgeangle and delicate tip and its a good knifedesign for cleaning fish.

Bosse
 
Bosse, for the record I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I apologize if I came off that way.
 
I don't think most replies are attacks on you, I think most just say that they would not use their blades for those situations unless it was an emergency.

Ok, your method of testing ice is way more reasonable than I had pictured in my mind. I can see how you could get away with it with either carbon steel blades (usually tougher than stainless steels at the same hardness), cheapies (usually tougher but softer), or blades with a stronger tip like a tanto, Spanto Tip, etc. And in those cases the blade is an adequate tool for the job. It's still not something I would do with my knives if I had a choice. I try to match my EDC (everyday carry) gear with the environment I will be in, though I know that's not always possible. If I were where you are, I might add an ice pick or perhaps a titanium tent stake since I would know that walking on ice is a possibility. Oh I see you address this point.

DennisStrickland, I agree that you would want sufficient toughness in a knife to survive a stab or an accidental contact with say a wall or something. So if the AFCK is too hard, it's too hard. I would also say that an argument could be made that an emergency self defense blade can be made of a softer steel, since it would usually only be cutting in an emergency situation. However, I would say that a harder blade would have better cutting performance against softer material than a softer blade, in say a slash cut. Also the hardness has an added benefit of making the knife better as an EDC blade, since it will keep an edge longer.
 
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nirrebosse if you state an opinion or experience on the forum you should expect differences of opinion. do'nt have such a soft skin you swedes are suspposed to be tuff like us texans. i've been no stanger to quite a bit of controversy since i've joined this forum after all what would life be if we all liked the same woman ? when you express an opinion you need to expect some dissension. sometimes the guys make their replys against the person instead of the persons stance. really i expect plenty of critisisam when i blast out some of my experiences. however the guys treat me pretty good for a person whom ca'nt spell & they have to really work at trying to understand what i'm saying. so please keep active on the forum, otherwise it gets boring. bear in mind lots of the members are young & have'nt picked of a lot of life scars yet.once i mentioned to the members that triple tempered 1095 would handle 90% of what they encountered. one of the replys said if were that easiley satisified we would'nt be steel freaks ;and you know he's right.
 
You took the knife to which you had immediate access. It wasn't the best tool for what you needed to do. But it was the only tool you had handy, so that is what you took. It did not perform the tasks you had to do as well as you wanted, but those are not the tasks that design and that blade steel were designed to perform. No foul on either you or the knife. As you say, a puukko would have been better suited to those tasks, but you did not have one.

Bet you will next time.
 
NirreBosse,

The majority of people here are good persons, don't let a few get to you. I for one am glad that you posted your experience. It is always good to hear from people who have first hand experience in varied aspects of knife use. I also used my knife to test ice with if I could not find a big enough rock to test it with. I used to always carry a no name sheath knife made from 440C when fishing in the winter in Pa. It worked great for ice but was totally dull by the time I was done busting a hole through the ice. I can not tell you how many knives I have put to the grinder, both mine and friends, to fix after they were broke and dulled from all types of use and abuse. Good for you for having the tools and skill to fix it. Many here do not have that knowledge or resource.
 
So here I am again....
I dont ment to look like I was hurt or a chickenswede ;) . My reason to withdraw from this AFCK post was that I said all I could possible think of in this matter. Some answers showed that I didnt come trough and thats no big deal. Eweryone is entitled to their own opinion what to think of or expect from a knife.
I will post here like before. AKA now and then in a not so regular basis.

Knarfeng in post nr 27 nailed it perfectly.
If my cousin asks me for help with a jobb to big for him alone, in a area that is our main interest this time a year, I bouth have to and want to help him. This is a matter of honor and pride. I expekt my friends to do the same for me when I call for help.
The ativity needs a knife. I would not under any cirkumstanses live home for moosehunt without a knife just because the knife I have handy is not perfekt for the task.

I told this story just to share a little about how it can be here a rougher day as to weather and aktivity. As this is a knifeforums I told the story with my suffering knife in focus. I also lacked my rubberboots this day and had to do this in a pair of midhigh goretex shoes. (Glad this wasnt a shoeforum, as they would have lynched me without a trial ;) ) I right away had to cross a small swamp, resulting in totally wet feet. Its cold to go outside like that for some hours. Like with the knife the shoes was the best I had awailable in that place and time, and I didnt for a secound think of telling my friend and cousin I couldnt help him as I didnt have the right equipment.

Bosse
 
I don't think people here can relate to where you live. I would have 0 problems with doing what you did to check the ice. When I was younger and trapping alot I would use my axe to test ice to make sure it was thick enough but did use my fixed blade on occassion. Hey better to be safe than sorry especially towing a moose. keepem sharp
 
Nirbosse,

You needed a hunting knife, but you brought an urban folder. Just because you brought the wrong tool doesn't mean the knife is now just a "cool toy.".

Your perception of the afck, which is a proven design, as a "cool toy" is what people are responding too. It's a fantastic folder that cuts and slices well. It's not a camp knife.
 
What's the problem with calling it what he wants to call it? A cool toy seems fine to me. The AFCK isn't that great of a knife, I've owned several of all versions large and small and truth be told if you are going to cut just soft stuff with it it should be fine. Everyone touts it as a s.d. knife etc.etc. Well the point is way to thin, there isn't a enough belly and the handle ergo's are to slim and the handle isn't grippy enough. Can you imagine impacting bone with it? Seems to me the point would break or bend and the handle being as small as it is I could imagine your hand riding up on the blade. Just my opinion of course. keepem sharp
 
Longbow, no problem at all. Just saying that's what people are responding to.

Bone and ice are two different things, especially when bone is live.
 
4 Ranges said:
Nirbosse,

You needed a hunting knife, but you brought an urban folder. Just because you brought the wrong tool doesn't mean the knife is now just a "cool toy.".

Your perception of the afck, which is a proven design, as a "cool toy" is what people are responding too. It's a fantastic folder that cuts and slices well. It's not a camp knife.
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AH. Thank you very much 4 ranges. This is the thing with writing in a language that is not my own. I can say I have reread my posts to try to see what went wrong but I didnt see this. When you point it out its so obvious.

Toy = thing to play with, thing for kids. In swedish=leksak.

For me toy ment Cool thing to have but not totally suited for my most often needed uses. Im very fond of having it infront of the TV or at a outdoorsdinner but for me in an environment and in an age where self defence is totally academic, a self defence knife cant be taken as nessisarry tool in any way. So for me its a thing that is pleasing and fanny to own and to have around. That was my meaning of "cool toy". In swedish=lyxpryl.
From there came my blunt statement "toy". I hope this makes it more understandable why I couldnt understand the turn of the diskussion.
As I stated many times here Im fond of the knife and not less now with the new grind and tip.

I was also playing around with its name Advanced Folding Combat Knife, for that I already said sorry. I did think it would be more strong as to impakt but Im not dissapointed at the knife, nor at myself, these things happen when you estimate tools wrong. The AFCK is even more delikat now after my regrind with as delicat tip as before and even thinner grind and lover edgeangle. It has almost no secondary bevel at all now. just a little convex.

I brought this knife to my cabin last saturday as its good to use with glowes and I was going to eat outside and take some small branches to a cristmas decoration my wife wanted to do. I didnt expect it to be needed for hard work as I was working with my Husquarna chainsaw.
Then my cousin rang me on the cellphone and the rest is the history abowe.

Feel very free to ask me things also when you dont aprove with me, this is often a good way to come to understand eatchother. Telling someone that he did wrong making him feel missunderstod can often leed to bad dialog.

Bosse
 
NirreBosse,

Thanks for sharing your story. My opinion is that you used the tool you had at hand to do a important task. Possibly even life saving task. Maybe it was not the "best" tool for this job but it was the only one available which kind of makes it the best one at that time.

Now you have a knife with a story and some character rather than a pristine knife that never gets used for anything but cutting paper.

Thanks again for sharing your story.
 
longbow said:
The AFCK isn't that great of a knife.. [snipped]... Seems to me the point would break or bend and the handle being as small as it is I could imagine your hand riding up on the blade.
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Not to hijack the original thread and you are entitled to your opinion, but I definitely would not agree that the handle of the AFCK is small. On the contrary I think the AFCK offers pretty good ergonomics.
 
bchan77 said:
Not to hijack the original thread and you are entitled to your opinion, but I definitely would not agree that the handle of the AFCK is small. On the contrary I think the AFCK offers pretty good ergonomics.
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Pretty good ergonomics for thrusting, stabbing, and slashing - hence the deep choil behind the pivot. It's a self defense knife first-and-foremost... it's entire design is built around that objective. The original models were designed with a near impossible to reach with one finger to unlock locking liner for this reason, too.

For utility work, it's "o.k."

I have owned a few over the years and still collect the older round-hole/liner lock versions. For day-to-day chores, I find that your hand is forced back too far to have that extra control needed for some delicate cuts. Sure you can choke up using the mini-choil, but your pointer finger never really feels secure there. Or at least mine doesn't. I just prefer large choils right behind the cutting edge - not an inch and a half back.
 
The usual reports are that Benchmade heat treats a little higher on the Rc scale than most. Meaning the knives will be slightly more brittle. As a steel junkie I think this is great, as you'll get better edge retention.
Just don't cut sheet metal or scrape gunk off machinery (like I do with my Kershaw CB JYD II:o).
 
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