A History Lesson

cavetech

cavetech

Joined
Nov 25, 2005
Messages
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I can't take credit for this. I received it from a well know mil-surp dealer.

Subject: A History Lesson


It’s interesting. Some of my friends think I’m conservative, and some think I’m too liberal. Regardless, this is an interesting lesson in history . . .


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Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


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In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


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Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
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China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


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Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


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Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


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Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


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Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.


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It has now been a couple of years since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 (all) personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:


* Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent


* Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent


* Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!


* In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)


While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the first 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.


There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.


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You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information.


Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.


Take note my fellow Americans.....before it's too late!


The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.


With guns, we are 'citizens'.



Without them, we are 'subjects'
 
If I'm not mistaken, you could throw in 400,000 Tutsis in Rwanda, many hacked to death by machete.

Tom
 
Steve , I am not a big fan of protest by social disruption . Protesting physically has never seemed a viable alternative except as an act of desperation .
That being said when I watched an R:C:M:P: officer spraying a peacefully disruptive(oxymoronic?) crowd of demonstrators with a fire-extinguisher sized tear gas cannister I have begun to change my mind . The officer targeted the news media camera with a blast directly at the lens . The camera man was not protesting . He was only witnessing the event . I cannot agree more that a docile people are only asking to be controlled . The more docile you are the more freedom will be taken from you .
 
....and consider buying an Finnish M39 from these guys, they have the best ones.

I got this same email earlier tonight. :p Thought-provoking stuff.


Mike
 
Ad Astra said:
....and consider buying an Finnish M39 from these guys, they have the best ones.

I got this same email earlier tonight. :p Thought-provoking stuff.


Mike
Click to expand...

Yup.

My next one will bw a laminated 91/40 but I can't decide where to buy it from. pretty much round receivers left. I'm open to suggestions on this one and an SKS. SKS seem to be drying up.

Also looking for a sks shooter, no grenede launcher.

I also am waiting for word on a M98 for a project rifle.

Right shoulder is still sore from shooting last weekend!
 
The only thing you learn from studying history is that nobody learns anything from studying history.
 
Kevin the grey said:
Steve , I am not a big fan of protest by social disruption . Protesting physically has never seemed a viable alternative except as an act of desperation .
That being said when I watched an R:C:M:P: officer spraying a peacefully disruptive(oxymoronic?) crowd of demonstrators with a fire-extinguisher sized tear gas cannister I have begun to change my mind . The officer targeted the news media camera with a blast directly at the lens . The camera man was not protesting . He was only witnessing the event . I cannot agree more that a docile people are only asking to be controlled . The more docile you are the more freedom will be taken from you .
Click to expand...

this happens with fair frequency in the united states as well. it's commonplace, and acceptable for the police to try out their new crowd control toys. they are SUPPOSED to be non lethal, and have stats to prove it; except in actual use, with untrained undiciplined people behind the controls, non-lethal weapons er tools, DO kill, maim, and cause damage beyond "control".

take boston, when the red sox won the world series, the police used a variety of tools, resulting in the death of several; including a young girl that was climbing a POLE (unclear why, to get away from being shot?), between her brain being impeded by what amounts to a paintball projectile filled with pepper-spray, or falling to the ground...

or the various assaults on crowds, and often people just standing there on their own front steps (disperse disperse!) during the various trade talks of late. sick. i believe one of the testers for CPF said his fish all died after such an attack (chemicals in air got into his tanks). nice.

despite claims tha tasers don't/can't kill, people have died from them. yet they continue to say "zero deaths *for the most part*" [1]
[1] excepting people who might have borderline health conditions, don't shoot those ;)

at least with those, police individuals aren't supposed to carry one unless they're willing to have it demoed ON them.

http://www.google.com/search?q=non+lethal+weapons

sweet

bladite
 
Bladite ? You hit a memory chord eith me . The very incident of which I spoke was just after it was announced that this new tear gas/pepper spray would be used for crowd control . Tax paying Guinea pigs.
 
Steve Poll said:
... Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns...
Click to expand...

You could replace 'Australian' with 'British' and be equally true; of course the ruling 'enlightened' liberal oligarchs believe that they are failing because they were not tough enough and/or have not explained themselves well enough. they know what's best for us poor unwashed masses after all.

all they need to do is put a further ban on knives, sticks, rocks, water balloons, metal keys, wire, chemicals, plastic forks, etc. and require everyone to carry chipped loyalty cards so police can instantly check to see if they are party members or not, and suddenly all will be OK., and maybe we should all be shock collered, micro-chipped and bar-code tattooed just to ensure we can be be controlled better, it's for our own good you know.
 
Kevin the grey said:
Bladite ? You hit a memory chord eith me . The very incident of which I spoke was just after it was announced that this new tear gas/pepper spray would be used for crowd control . Tax paying Guinea pigs.
Click to expand...

assuming the victim's estate can even manage to sue, it's cheaper than research, eh? i believe the military and govt did more than a few tests in the past on civilian populations (ours), because really, what are they going to do?

meh

bladite
 
And you laugh at Japanese propaganda :D

Those statistics were pulled straight out of somebodies bum and is just touchy feely BS.

Maybe China, Cambodia, Guatamala etc. were crapholes to start with, and they would have killed each other anyway. As seen in Rwanda, you don't need guns to kill a whole lot of people, in fact had they had more guns they probably would have killed more people.

In WW1 and WW2 over 36 million soldiers were killed and they all had guns.
 
Bladite said:
assuming the victim's estate can even manage to sue, it's cheaper than research, eh? i believe the military and govt did more than a few tests in the past on civilian populations (ours), because really, what are they going to do?

meh

bladite
Click to expand...

When I was in basic training . We were part of some kind of experiment . Every monday morning before breakfast we were trotted down for blood tests . Nothing like having three test tubes of blood sucked out of you before you eat in the morning . We were never told what the experiment was though it was rumoured to be something to do with Spinal menengitis (sp) .
 
Steve Poll said:
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
Click to expand...

A weapon is something which helps you if you fight somebody who is physically stronger. In a weaponless society there will be no peace (a peace is a result of a human mind state), there will be a rule of those physically strong or those who spend all their time training how to kill others, i.e. warrior elite, knights, samurai, whatever - simply aristocracy. Note how those of the warrior cast hated more sophisticated weaponry, easy to master and use by a non-professional to beat the professional - crossbows were baned by a pope's decree (allowed to use only against nonchristians), french knights killed any english archer they caught, and watch some japanese samurai movies and note the role of firearms in those.

Steve Poll said:
With guns, we are 'citizens'.

Without them, we are 'subjects'
Click to expand...

TRUE. Nobody can argue with that!
Any ruler with totalitarian hopes disarms the citizens before he acts.
A democratic government whose intentions are to serve it's citizens has no reason to be affraid and thus no reason to ban weapons.
Robbers prefer an easy prey - disarming law abiding people is absolutely contraproductive. They want to rob you, not to fight you.

Armed society is an polite society.
 
Kevin the grey said:
Steve , I am not a big fan of protest by social disruption . Protesting physically has never seemed a viable alternative except as an act of desperation.
Click to expand...

True. But without democracy, there is no other [DELETED by Mod] way. Try to understand, people, you just CAN'T remove any totalitarian ruler by any easy way.
There are NO ELECTIONS :-) I know it might sound funny to you, but it's true.

I remember my feelings when we were demonstrating again commies in 1989 and there were rumours that communist militia was mustering nearby with assault rifles and live ammo. Now try to guess, were weapons banned during communist rule in all "red" countries, or not?
 
Didn't the Czech Republic go from Totalitarian Communism to Democracy overnight - without one shot being fired?

OT: My wife's parent's are originally from Prague and when we were visiting her grandparents, I popped into the local pet store to get some toys for my dogs. Half the store had pet stuff and the other half was a full blown weapons store with swords and knives and medieval stuff - different :D
 
One last comment - you likely know that proverbial "boiling frog" experiment?

A frog which is thrown in boiling water immediatelly jumps out.

But if the same frog sits in a pot of water which go slowly warmer and warmer, it will stay in and dies.

So there's the advice: Just keep watching the water temperature.
 
alberich said:
True. But without democracy, there is no other [DELETED by Mod] way. Try to understand, people, you just CAN'T remove any totalitarian ruler by any easy way.
There are NO ELECTIONS :-) I know it might sound funny to you, but it's true.

I remember my feelings when we were demonstrating again commies in 1989 and there were rumours that communist militia was mustering nearby with assault rifles and live ammo. Now try to guess, were weapons banned during communist rule in all "red" countries, or not?
Click to expand...

I am not fighting against a totalitarian government . There can be no comparison . It is not necessarily an evil act to disarm citizens . Just a misguided one .
 
Nordic Viking said:
Didn't the Czech Republic go from Totalitarian Communism to Democracy overnight - without one shot being fired?
Click to expand...

Nope, this was a long process and without Gorbachew we would never succed. There was an isolated attempt to split from commie block in 1968 and it ended in blood, Russians just rode in in tanks.

Gorbachew possibly never expected that his reforms will end like that, he just planned to reform communism (which is pricipially impossible) but to kep the red block together. However in the confusion many satelite countries managed to split and their puppet governments without the Soviet help were not able to resist. They seriously considered if they will start shooting, but (lucky for us) they backed off. Even the communist party was not united and the reformists who were much stronger at the moment because of Gorbachew influence managed to stop the radicals... but still they just wanted to reform and stay in power, they never planned the complete change.

And they were never completely removed and banned, Communist party is still legal and they are in parliament, they got 12% in last elections! Many former bolsheviks are also in other parliament parties, namely "left" Social democratic party.
 
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