a Hydrogen generator , fuel for a forge (;>)) I need help

[Dan Gray]

a little OT but not
I have the plans for this, over 100 pages..

I'm building a on demand Hydrogen generator, though in the past it was not feasible to do this at home, now with the technology we have today, it is, this one unit takes only 3 amps or less and runs on 12V :thumbup:

I know of a guy that had built one of these and is saving now on his fuel costs in his car, by like 40% , the one I want to build , you can use for fuel also in a propane grill .. and if you can do that you should be able to heat your home with it also ( more than one or a bigger one)..the uses would be un-limited.
but I need help with it...
????
is there anyone here interested in this, that can build a circuit board ground up..
it will be a unit to produce
duel oscillating square wave voltage,
I have access to an
oscilloscope to tweak the unit once assembled..

if I can get someone to build the board/circuitry, I can build the rest along with the water capacitor , I will share all the plans with the interested person that will do this with me....
any takers

 

[JTknives]

I have done tons of experaments with generating hydrogen for years now. the resion that you get such a gain in gas milage in a car is that hydrogen has a faster flame propagation speed (burn speed) meaning that when its mixed with your fuel and air in the piston chamber it makes the overall burn rate increase giving you a more complete burn. some people think its because your adding fuel and you need less gass, but there is a problem with that and that is that you are using gas to generate the power to make the hydrogen that you end up burning. the electrolis is not 100% effecent at the levels of gas you need, and when your car burns it its also not 100% effecent in turning all the energy into movement. this does work with cars but the amount of power you would need to make enought gas to heat a home would be astronomical. it would probley be cheeper to just use the power to heat your home. but you never know untell you try and im a prime exzample of that. just because some one says it wont work does not mean it wont. if you need help i can lend a hand. i have an extensive background in electronics.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

I've been experimenting with the hydrogen generators for a few months now. With the most current model I've built and installed on my Toyota pickup, with a 22R engine, I've gone from 24 mpg to 36 mpg. At first I thought it was all "snake oil", but figured that until I tried it, I'd never know. I'm now a believer, and have set a goal to achieve 40 mpg out of my truck.

What J said is spot on. It works fine in internal combustion applications, but the amounts required for other purposes is almost unimaginable. I was doing some reading on the net last night, and found an article where an individual was trying to run a 149cc engine on HHO alone......it took 200 liters of HHO per hour just to get it to idle! With the math they used, the estimate to idle a car engine was 2000 liters per hour, and as much as 30,000 per hour to actually run the car at highway speeds. The electricity required to produce that much HHO was WAY up there.

From the whole thing I got the impression that in order to use HHO outside of internal combustion purposes, it would require an incredible amount of electricity to generate the required amount of HHO, which would offset any saving you might achieve by using the HHO as the primary fuel.

 

[Dan Gray]

Hey J

I've seen two of these so far the other one that I won't use you can see it's not going to be very effective for the reasons of just the way it's built.
that one they want to use an electrolyte in it to make contact, this one I have the plans for you don't need any of that..

I'm using the premise of the gained mileage BTU's per hour at said voltage used to produce the Hydrogen
the paper work says you'll use if using household AC converted ( transformer) to DC no more than 3 amp and them going on to say using about $3.00 a month in ele. of course this would depend on what you pay per KWH


but it sounds pretty sound to me.. but I'm just monkeying around with it..and the plans .
I'll post the board picture in a minute. I hope you can see it good enough to read it..
I just got the email note that ED posted here too. the different styles for these I think is key to working well or not.. I'm glad to see yours is working but as you can see it's not as good as it can be yet

 

[Dan Gray]

here is the picture , My host is messing with me right now, so I can't FTP the picture..

 

[Dan Gray]

ED I want to mention too that this unit is set up to make two different types of hydrogen one a slower burn to control , you mite say Octane and the other fast burning as mentioned.. hence the duel operation ele board and the Duel capacitor.. for the slow burn hydrogen it had a magnetic Coil to produce that slow burn type

 

[Don Hanson III]

At first, I thought the home built hydrogen generators (for car) was bogus but after a bunch of reading, it looks pretty good. Some out there are really boosting MPG.

Ed, is your Toyota, 4 wheel drive? I have a 4x4 with the 22RE engine (20mpg) and have been wanting to try the hydrogen with it. I was getting 4 to 5 MPG better before the ethanoll was added to our gas. Ethanol is not the answer! :grumpy:

Hope it will work for ya, Dan.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

Hi Don!

My truck is a 1987, 22R (carb), 4x4, 5 spd. Before gas prices stated spiking, I overhauled it to include .020 overbore, keith black pistons, mid range cam, and ported head. My rig also has a header and 2 1/4" exhaust system with free flow cat. converter and muffler, and a Weber 38 carb.

Before the rebuild it was getting around 19-20. After the rebuild/break in, and adding the Weber and the Header/exhaust took it to 24mpg. The first generation of hydrogen generator (the Water4Gas design) took it to 28 mpg, and the latest, which is the "Smack's Booster", took it to 36 mpg. Theres a lot of longer distance driving here in Montana, and my problem to this point has been heat build up in the device over longer distances. I'm getting ready to build the next generation for my truck, which I hope will beat the heat issues, and take me to 40 mpg. If I can achieve that, I'll be a pretty happy camper.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Thanks, Ed!

Mine's a 94 EFI with 259,000 miles and has had no work on it. Still has the org clutch! Been thinking of a rebuild but it runs so good. I do want better MPG though, 36 would be great!

Dan, sorry for the highjack

 

[Dan Gray]

Thanks, Ed!

Mine's a 94 EFI with 259,000 miles and has had no work on it. Still has the org clutch! Been thinking of a rebuild but it runs so good. I do want better MPG though, 36 would be great!

Dan, sorry for the highjack

no problem Don

ED do you have to use baking soda in yours or any other eletrolites?

J is that picture good enouph to work with?

 

[Ed Caffrey]

Hi Dan!

I'm using Potassium Hydroxide. About 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of distilled water seems to keep the heat down, while giving me approx. 1 liter per min. output. I tried using 1 teaspoon of Potassium Hydroxide to a gallon, but it was too much....the heat built up fairly fast.

The first couple of devices I built, I used baking soda....what a heck of a mess! With just a day or two the inside of the generator looked like it had been mud bogging down a red clay road! I'm convinced that the combination of electrolyte and the type plates makes all the difference. I'm using 304 SS plate right now, but still get a little "mud" in the cell over the period of a week with potassium hydroxide. I have some 316SS on order, and from what I've heard, 316 will keep things very clean.

Don, I hear you about the rebuild! My Toy had 269,000 on it, and was starting to burn oil. I looked at new trucks and about barfed! A new Toyota Tacoma in 4x4 with a 4 cyl/5 spd was $30 grand! :barf:
Thats when I decided to put the money in the 87 truck. I spent $3 grand on the engine, and another $1,900 on overhauling the tranny/transfer case. All I need now is a new paint job and will essentially have a new truck. My plan is to drive this one until the wheels fall off! The HHO stuff has been fun, and as things are now, I only have to buy 1/2 the fuel that I used to.

Maybe now I can afford to send you some of that gas money I'm saving for some steel!

 

[Dan Gray]

Hi Dan!

I'm using Potassium Hydroxide. About 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of distilled water seems to keep the heat down, while giving me approx. 1 liter per min. output. I tried using 1 teaspoon of Potassium Hydroxide to a gallon, but it was too much....the heat built up fairly fast.

The first couple of devices I built, I used baking soda....what a heck of a mess! With just a day or two the inside of the generator looked like it had been mud bogging down a red clay road! I'm convinced that the combination of electrolyte and the type plates makes all the difference. I'm using 304 SS plate right now, but still get a little "mud" in the cell over the period of a week with potassium hydroxide. I have some 316SS on order, and from what I've heard, 316 will keep things very clean.

thanks Ed
the one I have plans for, they say you don't have to use anything in the water
chlorine in town water they say is enough to complete the electrolyses and even the minerals in well water, so you'll have very little sentiment

I'd be interested in how your SS is set up.. in mine you use two different sizes of SS tubes 304 inside each other and keep a very
close tolerance so's not to have to use electrolytes in the water..

 

[J.S. Carter]

Hey guys I have some experiance with HHO as well. First let me say if you dont have a carb set up, Get one!. Running HHO on a fuel injected car is a nightmare. and will actually decrease your mileage! The reason is the O2 sensor picks up ALOT more oxygen in the exhaust stream and tells the computer it's in a lean burn situation so the computer throws more fuel at it to fix a problem that was never there to begin with... the easy thing to do is get a carb/intake and old style distributor set up like MR. Caffrey has and use it. it will have the greatest gains in MPG as well as carbs more efficiently atomize the fuel (gasoline) to begin with.

Dan the part your asking for can be had for $26.00 at Hydrogen Garage LLC

Ed we do indeed see less "mud" using 316L over 304 in our Smacks Booster Design

my latest experiment with it will involve hooking up an old race car electronic ignition coil up to it (baically a mass produced tesla coil) after the 30 amp fuse on the + side so the initial 12 volts is boosted to 35-50,000 volts we'l see how that works and if HHO production is increased. we also use KOH (pottasium hydroxide) as a electrolyte. it works great!

 

[Dan Gray]

Hey guys I have some experiance with HHO as well. First let me say if you dont have a carb set up, Get one!. Running HHO on a fuel injected car is a nightmare. and will actually decrease your mileage! The reason is the O2 sensor picks up ALOT more oxygen in the exhaust stream and tells the computer it's in a lean burn situation so the computer throws more fuel at it to fix a problem that was never there to begin with... the easy thing to do is get a carb/intake and old style distributor set up like MR. Caffrey has and use it. it will have the greatest gains in MPG as well as carbs more efficiently atomize the fuel (gasoline) to begin with.

Dan the part your asking for can be had for $26.00 at Hydrogen Garage LLC

Ed we do indeed see less "mud" using 316L over 304 in our Smacks Booster Design

my latest experiment with it will involve hooking up an old race car electronic ignition coil up to it (baically a mass produced tesla coil) after the 30 amp fuse on the + side so the initial 12 volts is boosted to 35-50,000 volts we'l see how that works and if HHO production is increased. we also use KOH (pottasium hydroxide) as a electrolyte. it works great!

Thanks JS is that the same as what I posted for a picture?
the unit I'm building needs a duel electronic control unit ..
to control the two Hydrogen's that is made at the same time in Mine
this control makes it possible for controlling the amount of the slow burn for octane rating ..
this one I'm making has a coil as you mention as well as the electrode unit.. in the same unit..

just a note...
if you could isolate the O2 from the Hydrogen being made this would a fix for O2 sensor problems in EFI
filtering it would be a step towards that fix..

some small auto shops are now producing Nitrogen for tires by filtering it from the air (atmosphere)
I don't see why that can't work here..

 

[Don Hanson III]

Hi Dan!
Don, I hear you about the rebuild! My Toy had 269,000 on it, and was starting to burn oil. I looked at new trucks and about barfed! A new Toyota Tacoma in 4x4 with a 4 cyl/5 spd was $30 grand! :barf:
Thats when I decided to put the money in the 87 truck. I spent $3 grand on the engine, and another $1,900 on overhauling the tranny/transfer case. All I need now is a new paint job and will essentially have a new truck. My plan is to drive this one until the wheels fall off! The HHO stuff has been fun, and as things are now, I only have to buy 1/2 the fuel that I used to.

Maybe now I can afford to send you some of that gas money I'm saving for some steel!

Gotta love them Toyota trucks, they seem to run forever.
My wife has a Toyota Prius that gets 48 to 50

Just let me know on the W2 and I'll start sending it your way

 

[Terry_Dodson]

I have been playing with HHO production a little myself. I have a 1992 3 cyl. Geo Metro that i thought was a carb model, but it isn't which means i had problems with the 02. But there are a couple people over at another forum doing Hydrogen only into there engines. I am working on that. There is a guy looking for some beta testers for a Hydrogen only system:

http://www.fuel-saver.org/Forum/showthread.php?tid=1680

 

[Rusty McDonald]

Im not bad at the electronics gig if the thing with J falls trough PM me.

 

[J.S. Carter]

Thanks JS is that the same as what I posted for a picture?
the unit I'm building needs a duel electronic control unit ..
to control the two Hydrogen's that is made at the same time in Mine
this control makes it possible for controlling the amount of the slow burn for octane rating ..
this one I'm making has a coil as you mention as well as the electrode unit.. in the same unit..

just a note...
if you could isolate the O2 from the Hydrogen being made this would a fix for O2 sensor problems in EFI
filtering it would be a step towards that fix..

some small auto shops are now producing Nitrogen for tires by filtering it from the air (atmosphere)
I don't see why that can't work here..

Dan ya might check a diesel forum and see how the're running their dual setups. also the hydrogen garage has a phone number and I know from experiance ther're good to deal with:thumbup:

I'll have to look into that nitrogen thing... but it would seem to me it would not be an "on demand" system like the HHO generators are.

I tried copper plates the other day just to see if it would work... YIKES I'd never seen copper corrode before my very eyes! it worked but the water solution immediatly started turning blue green and only after about 1 minute of working it had that bluegreen copper patina all over it! oh well back to the ole drawing board... I might try a freestanding coil in a coil set up and see if that produces well too

 

[Steven Penner]

some small auto shops are now producing Nitrogen for tires by filtering it from the air (atmosphere)
I don't see why that can't work here..

Because nitrogen dosen't burn ???

 

[79spitfire]

Because nitrogen dosen't burn ???

I do believe he is referring to a method to "scrub" the O out of the HHO gas, thus reducing the concerns with the O2 sensors on FI Cars.