a introduction , a copple of the usual newbie questions

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wack

Joined
Dec 24, 2005
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hi, my names wayne and I’m an apprentice boilermaker. As I have been progressing in my trade I’ve started to become interested in varying facets of the metal industry.

At work, we don't use anything exotic (only l.c.s , al, 304/316 stainless ), but it doesn’t take long looking in the plate offcut bin and you start seeing blades of all sorts of shapes and sizes ha ha ha ha .....

so here I am, with a copple of questions :) .... thanks in advance for your time

I was thinking about making a simple, small paring knife first.

1. Starting out with someing like 1085 / 1095 spring steel would probably be the easiest blade material I think? (reasonable easy to bye and self heat treat?) if any one has a better idea.... thanks

2. would a set of "crayons" or a "tempi pen" do for a simple heat treat (I will be using an oxy torch to do it :( )

3. what the !@#$ are those 2 piece brass rivets people use in the handles called and any idea where you get them from? ..... been rakeing the net for even a name for them :)

4. I have seen something on a basic guide to making your own Micarta here I think, or did I have too many coffees this morning? if anyone could point us in right direction or tell me I’m crazy it would be appreciated :)

thanks for your time..... wayne
 
Morning Wayne,Heres a good link for supplies ,Blade Making Info,Heat Treat & everything else that might be of interest to a new Blade maker such as yourself.http://www.internetbusinesslinks.net/SupplierList.html
The fasteners you could be refering to might be "Corby Style fasteners" or "Loveless Style fasteners" . You will find them among "supplies" in the link.In regards to your "tempi-laq" question,a Magnet might be easier to use for knowing when you have reached "critical temp"
This Link is to Ariel Salaverria's site and under knifemaking you'll find a tutorial on making your own micarta among other things,(awesome site & an awesome guy !! http://www.aescustomknives.com.ar/
Hope this helps you-I gave you about three days worth of researching to due-Have Fun !! and, Welcome to Blade Forums !!! The Best site & the Best Bunch of Guys on the Web.:thumbup:
 
Here's some info closer to home.
http://www.akc.iinet.net.au/index.html

http://www.akc.iinet.net.au/supplies.html

http://www.baldor.com.au/

Here's a forum down there with some nice people on it, if you ignore the pomms.;)
http://www.australianhunting.net/phpBB2/index.php

A lot about hunting and firearms, but they have a knife forum on there also. Some makers etc.

On the 300 series stainless, it won't make good blades as it has no carbon in it at all. It's not even magnetic, but can be used for fittings on a knife. The trouble is, if they have to be pinned, getting the pinning material to match in color. It's doesn't solder very well for guards either. A real pain to solder. Some use JB weld to affix a guard, so maybe that's your cup of tea.

1095 and the like can be heated till it's just past non magnetic, requiring only a magnet on a long handle to check as it's getting up past cherry red. Non magnetic is around 1450 degrees Fahrenheit IIRC.

You can quench in oil(olive oil works well, as does corn oil etc.)heated to about 125 degrees Fahrenheit. Don't wave the blade around in it. Just immerse the edge a couple of times, then immerse the whole blade and hold it still as it cools. You can temper in the oven at about 400 degrees Fahrenheit for an hour. Do that twice. Others here may have better ideas.

Welcome to BFC! Enjoy!:D:thumbup:
 
I'd have to agree with the others that you shouldn't be tempted to try using scrap steel from the bin. Good new *known* material can be had for less than ten bucks.

Just starting out like this, heating with a torch and quenching in oil, you might be better off staying away from the 10XX series of steels. In order to get properly hardened, you have to take them from high heat down to MS in like half a second. Otherwise, you may get pearlite in the mix, which is no good.

Something like O-1 might be a better choice for you, since you have several seconds to cool the blade. (I remember reading somewhere that you have a 7 or 8 second window to get it cooled/quenched.) This will allow you more time to get the heat perfectly even, and concentrate on getting the blade into the quenchant straight. (if you dip the blade into the oil at a weird angle, you could warp it.)
 
Koval's Knifemaking Supplies has a fastener call a Cutler's Rivet.
 
You can also use straight pins (welding and braising rods work well) as opposed to actual rivets if you want. I've seen the thread on making your own micarta too, but I can't seem to find it now. 1085 is a good choice to start out, as would be O1 and 5160. 1095 can be a little tricky to HT.
 
Some queations for you.

Forge or grind? As you mentions OA torch for HT, I'm guessing grind.

Read any books on knife making? there are many good ones out there and you may find most of your questions answered. And I expect you'll have many more questions before you get started if you stop to think through the process. Alternitivly you could do a search.

I use 1095 (i practiced first with files) and have no problems. I think a magnet would work better than temp crayons. Somewhere I remember a homemade micarta as well but don't remember where (maybe another forum, maybe here ?????????) I use solid brass pins cut from a brass rod. Some of the other things have been mentioned.
 
thanks guys for all your help ..... thanks :)

sorry about the scrap bin mix up .... i was only refering to the shapes ect , not the actual 304/316 ect.... latley the leftovers from a job have resulted in some intersting contours.... sharp and pointy.... ha ha ha ah

i beleve that if your going to do a job - do it once and do it right , so i want to know what i'm working with every time . we often get people come in to the shop with a part that need fixing but don't know what it is made out of . the best we can do is the usual tests - usualy we just end up useing something like a UTP 65 electrode and pray :rolleyes:

the possium , thanks for the concearn about the hardening process, its all supose to be cementite and austenite right? ..... just trying to rember all that material science i learned at t.a.f.e . and thanks for the tip on o-1

mike hull ..... thats a lot of info mate :D .... thanks
i had compleatly fugot about the nonmagnetic part , we use a little bit of dubble griffen at work .
one of the guys - a ex spring maker , just usualy tells me when to quench but not why .... he sez he just knows, and i beleve him after 35 years doing it :) - this may prompt me to investergate furthere i think

1450f is about 723'c?( some one correct me if i'm wrong? )

son_of_bluegrass, i will be mostly use stock removal but may do a little bit of "heat and beat" for ruff shapeing maby, as for books i've started to check out what available localy but still looking any recomendations would be apreciated

david thanks for the links :D .... thats bang on what i was after.....

....... and guys, thanks for the welcome :cool:


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wack said:
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1450f is about 723'c?( some one correct me if i'm wrong? )

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Click to expand...


Just heat it till it's non magnetic and quench. Get yourself a good small magnet with a long handle to use, in fact get several cheap ones as the heat demagnetizez them in short order.

The 10xx series of steels is fairly forgiving and easy to work, within reason. Just take it careful and easy.
Most of us learned by mistakes, so don't worry if/when you make some.;)

Now we'll have to talk about getting you a good grinder..............:D;)
 
wack said:
snip
mike hull ..... thats a lot of info mate :D .... thanks
i had compleatly fugot about the nonmagnetic part , we use a little bit of dubble griffen at work .
one of the guys - a ex spring maker , just usualy tells me when to quench but not why .... he sez he just knows, and i beleve him after 35 years doing it :) - this may prompt me to investergate furthere i think

snip
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Click to expand...
There is a chance he sees the steel change and that is how he knows to quench. I look for and usually see it if there isn't too much ambient light.

As for books.... I forge so my reccomendations will be on that mostly. "The Complete Bladesmith" is good and for an introduction to metallurgy "Metallurgy Theory and Practice". Others will have to reccomend grinding books. Right now I use mostly files for my "grinding". (next forging session will be to make a sen)

What sort of tooling do you have/have access to? Drill press/drill? Sanding/grinding equipment? Vice of some sort? (short list a bunch of other stuff is usefull)
 
.... thanks for the tip about the book "Metallurgy Theory and Practice". i've gota get it for my boilermaking apprenticeship anyway :D ha ha ha ha ha ha , i've heard that "The Complete Bladesmith" is quite good also - between the 2 of them and here i think that i'll be kept out of mischeff for a while :cool:

as for what sort of tooling i have , at the moment mostly just your average home handy man stuff - drill press ( can take up to 13 mm / 12 inch) , el-chepo cutoff saw , little bench grinder ect ..... but i have access to some decent stuff at work - big anvil and some tooling, 2 inch linisher ,2 foot pedistal grinder, heating/ cutting/ welding torches , 100t press , LPG profile cutter , plasma cutter ( cuts up to 1/4 inch and severs up to 1/2 inch ), T.I.G / M.I.G / STICK welders , cold cut saw , redial arm drill ect ....

now if i could "migrate" some of it home , i'd be set ha ha ha :D
 
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