A knife for protection at sea

Tech tip from some geek I've been talking to on the chat rooms :

The basic idea is indeed to let the shark know you are not an easy snack. Tha shark will probe you - which means take a snap at your boat and flipping it over - that is the time to scare him off. Now what did the dude do? He devised something he could reach immediately if the boat tipped over, which causes a small explosion underwater. That may get you some dead fish around, but dang, the shark will be gone. Don't ask me how he did it, but the idea seems to work.

Sharks are also lazy hunters.. the much rather pick a sick not-moving prey then something that bites back. Something which has some reach, and poke to him with that, kinda like a spear or paddle.

You're right, guns are too slow, spearguns too.

If you do end up in a knife combat with a shark ( that means one knife on a helpless creature which moves in slowmotion vs a shark which is more then 10 times as strong as you, 3 times as fast and has like 100 knives located in a snapping press), try and push him away first.. draw the knife if you will, but it will only take time. put your hand on his nose and push.. now draw knife. Aim for eyes or center nose, the only way to hit vital organs is from the side of a shark.
Try and avoid drawing blood.. you should also teach your fellow kayakers to come to you immediately and hit on the water with their paddles.. the NOISE will distract a shark. Maybe it's a good idea to stay in range of some boat with a propeller running.. that might distract a shark too.

If I were you, a knife is about as useless as a helmet in opensea kayaking.. the shark will eat your arm including knife if you lose.

Sooo basic idea is to stay focussed and do just about anything to 1. distract the shark 2. give the shark the idea you are not just helpless prey.

me.. I'd go kayaking someplace else.

But if I really had to get a knife ( and I'd play with it more before and after kayaking) I'd get something double edged I could trust hard with.. Sog has some good stuff.. Cold steel's peacekeepers come to mind.. Gerber Mark2..

Greetz and take care, Bart.
 
Originally posted by Steve Harvey
It is kinda' like hiking in grizzly country though, nothing that you would feel like packing would do you any good.
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Is that true? A handgun isn't likely to stop a grizzly, or hurt him enough that he'd leave you alone?
 
I don't know anything about fighting sharks. But in the Arctic, seakayakers often take a shotgun for protection against Walrus and polar bears, The first load is a banger to try and scare them off.
I also thought a handgun would be useless against a bear. Not so, at least at close range. About three years ago someone blew the face off a polar hear that got into a tent, with a 44. I doubt that would help against a charger, though.
With regard to a knife, I use a small Blackwood talonite or stellite knife around the neck or lashed to my PFD if I'm not wearing a survival suit. But i always have a bigger boy handy. In salt water, 440C will rust eventually, especially if you're a bit too busy to keep it dry or clean it promptly. Titanium is great, but it is fairly soft and won't hold an edge that well. Even talonite and stellite are fairly soft so if you use the big stellite blade for a use with hard impact or lateral torque you may roll an edge. A Busse works well for me. I've been using my old steelheart II. It's surprisingly rust resistant. And if sharks know what's good for them, they'll back right off :)
I haven't kayaked with sharks [not knowingly, anyways], but I'd have repellant, and a weapon or two handy if it were me. A knife would be my last line of defence, because of the blood [hopefully the shark's]and the frenzy that might produce. And I'd practice my rolls and rentry techniques. Sharks!
:eek: A new world record for rentry and paddling the hell back to shore!!
Sounds like a blast, actually - if you stay in the boat:p
 
I think that it would, I would like to see a shark pass a unsheathed knife though its digestive system!

:)

also check out this thread

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168873&highlight=knife+for+sharks

ok for knives you want one that wont rust, because you may decide that you want a knife just cause. For rust resistance you can get a coated blade, that is a good plan! Harc Chrome with Boron Carbide, titanium nitride, teflon, or epoxy powder coats work well. Skip carbon steel or non stainless steels because the edge can rust away (this is salt water that we are talking about).

Unless you are rich or something skip Titanium, Talonite, stellite 6k and all that stuff becausse for a large fixed blade its really going to cost you.

some knives to check out-

http://www.extremaratio.com/en_menu.html (very stainless coated tactical knives with polymer handles, but you may want to wait since they have cooler stuff in the works)


http://www.onestopknifeshop.com/store/fallkniven.html (falkniven very good all purpose knives, a rather stainless steel, and they can be had coated, plus a polymer handle)

http://www.1sks.com/store/buck-nighthawk.html (this i feel is one of the better choices, 420HC is very stainless and it still makes a decent knife blade is coated and has a polymer handle, and the price is right)

http://www.1sks.com/store/sog-fixed-blade-knives.html some good ones here such as

http://www.1sks.com/store/sog-seal-2000.html

http://www.1sks.com/store/sog-tigershark.html

and dont let anyone discourage you from getting a knife, i love it when i have a reason to get a knife, makes the purchase more puspossful and justifiable, so good buy a new knife, and say "it's for sharks"
 
Originally posted by PJay


I should point out that I do carry what we call a 'powerhead'and you call a bang stick.

I was going to suggest something explosive, since I've heard that slapping the water hard as they approach is supposed to scare them off. I'll let someone else test that for me, if possible.

If you really have to paddle a kayak in shark territory, is it worth investing in a shark suit?

Also, I'm wondering how it would work out to attach something to the hull to transmit sound into the water. There's bound to be a frequency that the sharks would avoid, like the mosquito and mouse repellants. I think it's 14 cycles that makes people uneasy, so there should be a frequency that'd make sharks paranoid. I assume there's something they're afraid of. :)
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Thanks everyone for good tips. You guys know stuff about knives [ and sharks !] that I haven't dreamed [ or had nightmares ] about!
Responding to a few points made by folks:

# Yep, the very obvious risk of spilling even more blood is too horrible to think about. Sharks and blood makes for real trouble.

# The powerhead I use is a 12-gauge and blows nice holes in things, but is [whisper] highly illegal down here in Oz. Given the right circumstance, ie, a shark just nosing the boat, it may be useful. I have it attached to a hand spear.

# Yes, HJK, I have heard of the Inuit people using shotguns in the Arctic. I would rate the polar bear as dangerous as a shark. They actually hunt humans don't they? There is research down here in Oz that the dreaded White Pointer retains a memory once it has eaten human flesh, but that is still to be proven. Nobody wants to volunteer for the research project.:)

# Loved this description of a shark from one of you folks: "If you do end up in a knife combat with a shark ( that means one knife on a helpless creature which moves in slowmotion vs a shark which is more then 10 times as strong as you, 3 times as fast and has like 100 knives located in a snapping press)... [ welcome to my nightmare ]

# Thanks for the link to the previous discussion on sharks and knives.

# On the use of repellants and various electrical devices; there's a new device on the market here, developed for surfers. It straps to a leg, but boy, it costs, $2000 or thereabouts.

# Like all electrical devices, you rely on them at your peril. A diver in South Australia died a few months back in a shark attack. He had a device operating on a boat and a personal device. Apparently the battery on his device failed... Shark wins.

# I accept all the advice about the difficulty of stabbing, or doing any movement fast underwater. I guess my original thoughts stand. If I am tipped out, having a decent knife will give me more of a chance than nothing.

# And yes, I quite often see sharks at sea. They are a fact of life down here. Usually they cruise on by, or parallel you a few yards off. We don't talk about it much, because what's the point? Best thing I've found is just to keep on paddling, and try not to look or act like a seal. :)
Regards all, PJay
 
I've had a sheaf knife with "schrade plus" stainless steel I took on several snorkeling trips. The salt water actually caused it to rust in tiny little spots. Particularly where the blade meets the rubber handle. Not sure what variety stainless it is.

Sounds like you almost need more of a dagger than a knife, but don't know of any in stainless or if something like that would be practical to strap to your leg.
 
For knives: Go with the tigershark of Cold Steels OSS.

http://www.1sks.com/store/cold-steel-oss.html

Consider having them sent to Bodycoat or someone who will put a different finish on the blade to help with rust.

A handgun sounds like a great idea but your right to bear arms is not unalienable like with us.

A spear like CS’s Assegai looks nice or better yet the Boar spear! To ward rust, put a zip-lock bag around the blade. Tape the excess around itself but LEAVE SOME ROOM FOR THE BLADE TO MOVE! You only need a mm of air around the blade, but it is vital. The air can help with floating so only tape enough to keep the bag from moving too much and cutting open. Now, when you stab something the slack in the bag will let the point cut through to the target, with the bag falling out of the way. Same idea as a condom on a gun muzzle. Without slack, the blade won’t pierce the bag. Oh, and you have a big stick to beat him with too!

Pushing out of the way? Use your paddle/spear AND your legs and push to the side (duh) From the front, you can only push yourself off of the nose and that will facilitate a push straight back - with you STILL in the shark’s path. Use your legs to push or else they will follow(slowly) after your body. If they stay where your body was for too long the shark will move them for you.

Hitting the shark: The nose is NOT a tender spot. But it is often the closest so hit it hard to tell sharky that you are not easy prey. Eyes and gills are the best targets.

Originally posted by PJay
And yes, I quite often see sharks at sea. They are a fact of life down here. Usually they cruise on by, or parallel you a few yards off. We don't talk about it much, because what's the point? Best thing I've found is just to keep on paddling, and try not to look or act like a seal
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Not to be rude, but at this point I’m going to call you an idiot. Not over the paddling along sharks, that’s a GOOD thing! You’re dumb because you ignore the sharks when they give you FREE lesions on their behavior. Like in poker; if you play against someone enough you learn his tells and can call him when he bluffs. Sharks don’t bluff, but you should still look for signs. A good undercover cop can tell when he is being followed WITHOUT having to turn around. Look for shark-sign, not only fins but ripples in water, waves, etc. Get so good you can tell if a shark is within 30 meters! That’s when you reach for the powerhead. Then, if he gets too close and approaches your boat BANG! You CAN control the situation! Don’t let him sneak up on you.

And carry as many weapons as you can for when he does sneak up on you.;)

Edit to add: For the love of God, as least PAINT the blade black! Fishing lures are bright and shiny for a reason.
 
Originally posted by scotjute
I've had a sheaf knife with "schrade plus" stainless steel I took on several snorkeling trips. The salt water actually caused it to rust in tiny little spots. Particularly where the blade meets the rubber handle. Not sure what variety stainless it is.
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Schrade plus is 440A, which is pretty rust-resistant but would certainly rust in salt water. Most dive knives are 420J or similar. Many people say you really want cobalt alloys or titanium for salt water.
 
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