A knife from Ganga Ram

Bill and Yvsa both had their files out at the convention. Yvsa may weigh in on the hardness question also. They are both far more experienced than I in judging hardness.
 
Horward --- I say: That GRS (from it's tip to it's butt) is just fantastic but it is considered as too heavy for this skinny KhukuriKnut!

Pakcik Bill --- if that GRS is made by one of the drunken apprentice --- I say: Maa-syaa-Allaah! I guess he has the style! He will make 11 out of 10 marks Khuk when sober!

Is there any 12" version of GRS?

NEPAL H
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Hi All,
I know that I often sound like a broken record, but you shouldn't make too much over the relitive hardness of the edge. Bura usually has his edges at around Rc60 with a slight fade on either side of the belly, especially on the larger blades, to Rc58. Old GR's blades (from my experience of seeing only two of them) seem to run about Rc58 at B. to Rc56-57 at point and recurve. Does this make one blade better than the other?......No it does not. How the blade was forged, ie. how often was the steel heated and how hot; how the smith beat it into shape (several techniques can and are employed here) and at what temperature it was hardened all play a more important role here than a couple of Rockwell points on the edge.

Which brings up another point: Blade design. I'm not going to rehash those points already made, except to say that a blade with a thinner cross section in the area of the edge from the beginning of the bevel to the edge will be harder higher throughout up to the grind line. Real thick bevels may, in fact, have a much softer core with the outside of Rc61 and be Rc 56 in the middle. That's why when a blade or other tool that is heat treated in the manner of the Kamis reaches a certain point of wear from what ever source wheather intentional (sharpening) or from use in an abrasive environment (like a snowplow blade) it seems to disappear at a faster rate. The harder outer shell is gone.

Ahigher hardness on a blade edge is a trade off (like almost everything else) While it will cut for longer periods without sharpening, it also takes longer to sharpen. A slightly softer edge wears faster and requires sharpening more often, but doesn't take as long.

Harder edges are more prone to chipping and softer blades tend to roll and dent. Harder edges and steel with the smoother finish resist rust better, but a softer blade cleans up easier.

Chicken or egg? It doesn't matter which came first. What matters is: Do you prefer eggnog or drumsticks?
Dan

[This message has been edited by Dan K (edited 09-09-2000).]
 
Mohd – Bill told me that this was a well-traveled knife. It is unfortunate that it didn’t fit you.

I did see a smaller knife by Bura in Ganga’s style at the convention. I think Bill called it a “Baby Ganga Ram.”

Dan – Thanks for the hardness information.


[This message has been edited by Howard Wallace (edited 09-09-2000).]
 
Dan,

Thanks for information, perhaps you can correct my interpretation of what is going on in a khukuri. Personally I don’t think you sound like a broken record, as I tend to forget.

“How the blade was forged, ie. how often was the steel heated and how hot; how the smith beat it into shape (several techniques can and are employed here) and at what temperature it was hardened all play a more important role here than a couple of Rockwell points on the edge.”

The old stock removal against forging challenge. I think there is an argument for forging in a differentially hardened blade such as the khukuri. If the blade is uniformly hardened any advantage for forging would be lost due to the heat treat. If I am mistaken but the blade is almost unhardened about 0.5” from the edge. In which case forging gives the blade much of its strength.

“Real thick bevels may, in fact, have a much softer core with the outside of Rc61 and be Rc 56 in the middle. That's why when a blade or other tool that is heat treated in the manner of the Kamis reaches a certain point of wear from what ever source wheather intentional (sharpening) or from use in an abrasive environment (like a snowplow blade) it seems to disappear at a faster rate. The harder outer shell is gone.”

Here is one of my experiences to support your idea of the hardness profile of the khukuri. I have a H.I. Ang Khola where the edge is still to hard (my first one). I have worn away some of the harder metal but not all. The edge chipped away whenever I sharpened it on my Sharp Maker. Now the chips are on a microscopic level (not visible to the naked eye. It will probably get better if I used it more.

So is this good or bad? I think it is good, Rc 54-56 is still hard enough to provide a useful edge. The softer edge should support the hard edge for heavy work. The knife never chipped chopping wood.

“Harder edges are more prone to chipping and softer blades tend to roll and dent.”

With a lot of rolling and denting would you not work harden the edge and cause it fracture? This does not seem to be the cause, except in a really soft khukuri I had, where the edge actually broke away chopping in wood.

Will
 
Will,
First, there is quite a difference between a forged blade and a blade ground from a stock billet. When stock removal is used the grain of the billet is stright, but the lines of the knife are not. This presents an end grain in the area of the belly, for example. Secondly, the grain structure is even throughout the blade. With a forged blade the pounding packs the grain and the grain usually follows the contours of the blade (more or less) and an end grain is only presented at the point (usually). However, this packing also creates stress points that need to be relieved to prevent fracture.

There are advantages to both systems, however the way the blade is heat treated, regardless of steel used can make all the difference in the world. If improperly heat treated ANY steel can produce a crappy knife. Conversely, if heat treated properly, even a simple steel with only .3%carbon will make a passable knife. I don't know anything about the properties of nonferrous blades, TALONITE for example.
ALL metal will workharden. It's only a matter of time and degree.
There is no magic heat treat either, despite the claims of the "Rabbid Puppy".
Dan K
 
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