A Little Help, PLEASE, from some HOG's Well Educated in BUSSE...

[Jaxx]

I understand and appreciate the desire not to derail Jaxx's thread. My apologies Jaxx.

Thanks for sharing the picture, Eric!! Interesting grind line and sterile blade. Nice knife. :thumbup:

Hey, No problem!!! No apologies necessary! :thumbup: ALL of this is useful info which is still on topic as far as I'm concerned, so feel free to keep the info flowing.

I did get confirmation from the Boss yesterday that the LMS is indeed refinished, and this done by Busse Combat, so that's cool. :thumbup: Bravado, I traced the knife through the old exchange threads, it was DEFINITELY yours. Still in minty unused condition!

The ARK was a little harder to pin down. It may be most likely an actual Mili issue, being sterile... I freakin' love this ARK, pretty STYLIN' for a "Rescue Knife", anlthough we all KNOW it'll save your butt if needed, LOL!
Jaxx

 

[pbubsy]

So were the 12 original Factory D/C or were they sent in and done after the fact? is the rope cut handle a feature of all 12?

It came from Progunner to Border Shift to me. Border Shift passed on the same info that was passed to him: It's one of 12 that were original factory bead blasted SHBM's. I don't know if the rope cut micarta is in all of them. From what I can recall, I've only seen one other in a picture and it did. Reminds me of the LE's I've seen pictures of :thumbup:

 

[Gravelface]

It was refinished...I use to send stuff back all the time and have work done to it before Jerry became so famous and doesn't have time to do them any more

There is also a Satin/Tan and a Satin/Black LMS out there.

The closest thing to a DC LMS was the Prototypes.

PS...any SHBM's in double cut are redone too...

Paul, I have heard the 1/12 D/C on a few occasions, but 1whobuys is stating that they are second hand factory done....I am curious to which is correct....I do not doubt they were done at the factory, but were they done by the factory and then release or released then sent back in and had the D/C finish put on them?


1whobuys, do you have any information to help understand....was the D/C finish not available when the SHBM were released?

 

[Eric Isaacson]

....was the D/C finish not available when the SHBM were released?

during the initial release you got your choice of coatings, it was either black or black There was no DC at that time. If you wanted something other than black you had to buy the LE which was a satin finish.

However, there were some SH BM's that were found at the shop later and some of these may have been DC. I remember Jerry posting about them but I can not remember what was done with them/to them.

Here is my 2 cents on refurb vs. factory original.
In my opinion if it was done at the shop, I do not care when or why it was done, as long as the shop did the work all is good for me (as a collector/user)
It won't affect what I am willing to pay for it as long as the shop did the work.

I know this really does not answer your question but it is the best I can do

 

[OldPhysics]

Here is my 2 cents on refurb vs. factory original.
In my opinion if it was done at the shop, I do not care when or why it was done, as long as the shop did the work all is good for me (as a collector/user)
It won't affect what I am willing to pay for it as long as the shop did the work.

I know this really does not answer your question but it is the best I can do

So -- if it's all Busse, it's all good?

I can go with that...

 

[Gravelface]

Like you say, I don't care if it was done before release or sent in for refurbish....I just want to know what is the proper name of these....are they an elite 12 who were released as D/C or were they just run of the mil that were later sent in and D/C.....in theory I could send in one of mine and have it D/C......then would it be one of the 13 Factory D/C...I know it sounds like I am trying to stir the pot, but I am not...just curious.

 

[pbubsy]

Like you say, I don't care if it was done before release or sent in for refurbish....I just want to know what is the proper name of these....are they an elite 12 who were released as D/C or were they just run of the mil that were later sent in and D/C.....in theory I could send in one of mine and have it D/C......then would it be one of the 13 Factory D/C...I know it sounds like I am trying to stir the pot, but I am not...just curious.

I don't think anyone thinks you're trying to stir the pot Jason, you've actually roused my curiosity as well. I took for granted that it was a run of SHBM's straight from the factory. I think they were probably just 12 that were found later on if not after the SHBM runs and were d/c'd and sold at shows. I haven't heard of a Ganzaa that had them and also haven't heard of them being a regular offering. It may be that they're from LE blanks. Mine is a little more than a quarter inch naked and might be a fatty (I have to check to make absolutely sure) and has the same scales as the LE's.

No more speculation on my part though...I emailed Jerry this morning and am awaiting a response. Hopefully he remembers the details :thumbup:

 

[Gravelface]

The Satin I have is .275 and the beater is .265....I want to see one of these .300+ fatties!!! I am interested to find out more also about all them! So many out there and so many variations! I really appreciate all the help from the experienced HOGS who work behind the scenes!

 

[pbubsy]

Paul,

Sorry but too much scotch has passed under the bridge since I made
those. .
. .

Best of luck,

Jerry

End of the line there

 

[Cobalt]

Like you say, I don't care if it was done before release or sent in for refurbish....I just want to know what is the proper name of these....are they an elite 12 who were released as D/C or were they just run of the mil that were later sent in and D/C.....in theory I could send in one of mine and have it D/C......then would it be one of the 13 Factory D/C...I know it sounds like I am trying to stir the pot, but I am not...just curious.

Jason, Paul,
I don't remember the word Double Cut even comming out until somewhere in 2001-2002 time frame. However, I know that Busse was doing that process and calling it bead blasted before that. I remember seeing mid 90's bead blasted blades. As for the SHBM's 1/12 Bead Blasted just because chuck doesn't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Anyway, my understanding is that the bead blasted SHBM's were from the factory and were done as such as being one of the last runs. The handles that came on those 12 Bead Blasted SHBM's are exactly like the #236 LE SHBM I got from chuck, and I am sure those handles were factory runs done during the SHBM production run. Later handles looked different. In fact there are several SHSHII's with the same angle grooved handles. Not only that, but there are no INFI dimples which means that those SHBM's were finished much better than the standard models. Definitely collectors grade SHBM's from the factory IMO.

 

[Cobalt]

BB 1 of 12 handle

SHBM LE#236

SHSHII's

ALL FACTORY HANDLES AND ALL BASICALLY THE SAME. I think it's basically the time frame that they were roduced in, because LE's have different handle types.

 

[Progunner]

It came from Progunner to Border Shift to me. Border Shift passed on the same info that was passed to him: It's one of 12 that were original factory bead blasted SHBM's. I don't know if the rope cut micarta is in all of them. From what I can recall, I've only seen one other in a picture and it did. Reminds me of the LE's I've seen pictures of :thumbup:

That DCBB finish is a refurb job done at the shop by my request. I had the original owner send it straight to the shop after I traded for it. I didn't tell anyone it was the original finish as I recall.

Jaxx, I had 2 ARKs in that config. one was sterile and the other had a very small, nearly invisible CS logo on the flat behind the plunge line.

 

[pbubsy]

Thanks for the explanation and the pictures Dennis! I guess according to Progunner I've got a 1/13 there was a misunderstanding/miscommunication somewhere along the way

 

[Jaxx]

Ok, Y'all have posted so many SHBM's & SHSH's on my thread, that I'm caught somewhere between DROOLING on my keyboard and turning GREEN with ENVY. Aw heck, what am I sayin'...? KEEP 'EM COMING!!! :thumbup::thumbup: I'll get over it!, LMAO. :thumbup: COOL!!!

Thanks, Progunner, for checking your ARK's... I LOVE these knives! Someone had once mentioned the possibility of a faint mark some time ago (you, perhaps?), but after a very close examination, I can definitely say none is visible on mine. It's gotta be a sterile. :thumbup:

 

[Cobalt]

That DCBB finish is a refurb job done at the shop by my request. I had the original owner send it straight to the shop after I traded for it. I didn't tell anyone it was the original finish as I recall.

Jaxx, I had 2 ARKs in that config. one was sterile and the other had a very small, nearly invisible CS logo on the flat behind the plunge line.

So, Pauls SHBM was a redo? Did they remove the handles and re-insert them. The story on the other 12 is that they were factory bead blasts. It's funny that Pauls just happened to have the same handles. It must have been made at the same time as the others. Kind of like those two SHSH's in the pics I posted above. One is bead blasted and the other is not. Not sure if that SHSH is a factry bead blast though. I call it bead blast because again in 1999-2000 I do not remember the word Double Cut ever popping up.

 

[pbubsy]

So, Pauls SHBM was a redo? Did they remove the handles and re-insert them. The story on the other 12 is that they were factory bead blasts. It's funny that Pauls just happened to have the same handles. It must have been made at the same time as the others. Kind of like those two SHSH's in the pics I posted above. One is bead blasted and the other is not. Not sure if that SHSH is a factry bead blast though. I call it bead blast because again in 1999-2000 I do not remember the word Double Cut ever popping up.

I guess there's no way of knowing the original scales or if indeed these are those....what I CAN see is that they were taken off for the bead blasting process because there's no evidence of coating between the scales and the tang. It's a very good job :thumbup: what I'd expect from the factory.

I haven't been succesful in finding a different SHBM to trade for so I'm going to see if I can fix this one up to be comfortable. Where the rope pattern curves around towards the pommel there's a sharp ridge on either side that digs into the palm of your hand. I'll try to smooth it out and if that still doesn't take care of it it's off to the factory for some hand shaped micarta scales...I just can't figure out the color I would want: Tan, Snakeskin, or Green Linen. HMMMMM.....unless a 1/300 comes along

 

[1whobuys]

To further add to the mystery...
I use to buy all the "users" I came across, Marc Fratello the old Custom Shop guy use to get them alot.
He started passing them on to me until I started requesting that he send them to the shop and have them refinished in Double Cut Finish.

At that point he realized the added value and started sending them in himself..."HE" started calling them "Factory" DC knifes and sold them as "NEW"
Marc was a snake and took advantage of "Opportunity"
The last batch of Old SHBM's that were found in a box at Waseon that I know of had "TWO" factory Crinkle Coated BM's and no DC's.

There may have been a run, but I Never heard of any Factory DC SHBM's, DC came along after the SHBM's were completed and discontinued.

The only other source that could shed light on this would be Papa Thud or maybe Dark Nemmesis.

AND I agree with Eric, if it was done by Busse it's good as gold so to speak.

And Eric, there is one more Satin LMS out there...Andrew has one...He got it from Santa
There is also a great Satin and Tan MS out there too

 

[Troy H]

And Eric, there is one more Satin LMS out there...Andrew has one...He got it from Santa
There is also a great Satin and Tan MS out there too

*taking notes*

Are the LMS prototypes made out of INFI? Or are they considered an apprentice blade (no talon hole and all)?

The LMS has become my cocaine. Seriously.

 

[1whobuys]

*taking notes*

Are the LMS prototypes made out of INFI? Or are they considered an apprentice blade (no talon hole and all)?

The LMS has become my cocaine. Seriously.

INFI, but on a side note, I traded the one I had for a Chocolate Cake

 

[Troy H]

Chocolate cake, huh? I didn't know the market value was so low on these

...I spent much more than that for mine.